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Main Winches for Spring Lines...

5K views 24 replies 13 participants last post by  sahara 
#1 ·
Yes, you read that right. My boat (32' C&C displacing ~11000lbs) has cleats and open chocks bow and stern for bow and stern lines ... however, there is no such thing amidships. So ... spring lines are secured boat side by wrapping them around the main winch.

Opinions?
 
#3 ·
I would recommend using the cleats rather than the winches... the winches may not be mounted to resist loads from the directions of the docklines.

Another option is to install amidships cleats on the genoa fairlead tracks. Schaefer, Garhauer, and Forespar all make them.
 
#4 ·
There's no law that says you can't run spring lines from the bow and stern cleats towards the dock cleat nearest the middle of the boat. As far as winches go, if you've got a fair lead go for it. Just don't trip over the lines.
 
#5 ·
On our C&C 35 MKIII we follow Saildogs lead. Cleats are on our Genoa Tracks for the spring line. makes a good central point also when rafting up for forward and rear spring line attachment to other boat to help "lock" the boats together to prevent banging. Also since the spring is our first line we attach we docking it is in a desirable location amidships the wides point on our boat when pulling up to reach and pull the dock line off the dock hooks. (not sure if I explained that correctly). We have the Carhauer ( 11/4" track) ones and are quite happy with them.

Not sure I would feel safe with all the different angles a spring line takes floating around in a slip that I would leave my boat attached that way in addition the the added strain it would put on your winches.

Dave
 
#6 ·
Winches are set up for more of a constant load, the needle bearings are designed to transfer the loads as the rotate and come under load. There would be no harm in temporary using for a spring line, but for repeated cyclic loading it would be hard on both the bearings and the races, especially if an aluminum drum.
 
#7 ·
You can also spring from shrouds - if you have chafe protection on the spring line.
 
#8 ·
This is a really bad idea IMHO... Putting stresses like that on the rigging is a BAD IDEA.
 
#9 ·
Recommend strongly against using shrouds. Also recommend against using stanchions, but I do it anyway :p

Also recommend against using bow and quarter cleats to spring the boat in or out of a berth. In this case it's crucial to have a midships cleat mounted as close as possible to the boat's center of lateral resistance, otherwise the bow or stern will swing out.

If you're using them statically to arrest fore and aft motion of the boat in her slip, bow and quarter cleats will work fine. In this case I think a winch will work reasonably well also, unless you happen to get hit by a tremendous and gusty storm.
 
#10 ·
Recommend strongly against using shrouds. Also recommend against using stanchions, but I do it anyway :p
Bad Adam...bad, bad Adam...

Also recommend against using bow and quarter cleats to spring the boat in or out of a berth. In this case it's crucial to have a midships cleat mounted as close as possible to the boat's center of lateral resistance, otherwise the bow or stern will swing out.
Yup, true that.

If you're using them statically to arrest fore and aft motion of the boat in her slip, bow and quarter cleats will work fine. In this case I think a winch will work reasonably well also, unless you happen to get hit by a tremendous and gusty storm.
The problem has to do with how the winches are mounted. If you have the winches mounted on the cockpit coaming, they're often pretty strong fore-and-aft, but fairly weak athwartships... and if you're using it as a spring line to pull the boat in towards the dock, they can often tear out.. I've seen some really gruesome photos where the winch basically tore the entire coaming off the boat because it was used for a dockline.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Sailing Dog -

I understand about the "breast/spring" line holding the boat in position, I was more describing moving the boat rather than keeping it still. Trying to get off the dock against wind and/or current using a center mounted cleat is what I was thinking of.

Sometimes terminology is just plain different. I have always considered a breast line to be led from the middle (the breast if you will) of the boat, and bow and stern lines were just called dock lines.
 
#15 ·
Yes, spring lines are very good for that, but they generally have to be attached to either bow or stern cleats to work to do that. I'm a big fan of using spring lines to help the boat get off of a dock when the wind is not cooperating.

Sailing Dog -
I understand about the "breast/spring" line holding the boat in position, I was more describing moving the boat rather than keeping it still. Trying to get off the dock against wind and/or current using a center mounted cleat is what I was thinking of.
 
#16 ·
In praise of genoa-track-mounted cleats

I've become fond of the single amidship-mounted line for singlehanded docking, as SD mentions above.

The technique, shown in this video, can be fine-tuned by being able to slide the amidship cleat forward or aft on the track.

After I slid the cleat into what I found to be the sweet spot, idling in forward with a single loop around a dock cleat keeps me perfectly parallel to the dock.
 
#17 ·
Many C&C's have an aluminum toe rail. Does yours? We use heavy-duty caribiners clipped to the toe rail for our spring lines. We essentially have an unlimited amount of placement flexibility because the toe rail is perforated from bow to stern. Also, the caribiners are quick to connect.

We tie differently for storm/high-wind conditions, but this arrangement works great 90% of the time.
 
#18 ·
Second the idling forward against a midships spring line. I make it fast to the first cleat on the dock and leave it at a length about equal to half the LOA. Motoring against it pulls the boat in parallel to the dock.

For springing out, bow or stern cleat makes sense (guess I was overgeneralizing).

Back to winches: I find that when I use a sheet winch (mounted on cockpit coaming) as a belay point for a spring line, its lead is similar to the jib sheet lead. In fact I often have to move the jib car someplace else so that it will not get in the way of the line.
 
#25 ·
My boat has no midship cleats - intentionally. The original owner didn't want them, and I don't miss the toe stubbers.

There was no intent to save money, as 2 cleats in building a Hinckley 42 are pretty insignificant. I've seen several sisterships with the same arrangement.

I think as you go up in size the winches grow faster than the cleats, so what may be an unacceptable load on the winch base of a 25', is not going to matter worth a hoot on a 42'. I'm pretty certain that my winch bases are at least as strong or stronger than my deck cleats, which are themselves substantial.

Last thing regarding the previous post - springs to the bow and stern are certainly more useful in gaining angle when springing off a dock against a breeze. When landing on a dock, you usually don't want to build angle suddenly, and a midship spring can bring the boat alongside parallel and gently. We use a midship spring to stop momentum, trying to do so with a bow spring (or a stern spring when backing in) will just pull the bow in.
 
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