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  #271  
Old 09-01-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Thank you Maine Sail.

A couple questions: In reading the post I remember the straw method and the pen method for making holes in the butyl when inserting screws/bolts. I did my fore hatch awhile back, and will be doing my salon hatch soon. I found the straw method ( the straw I used ) to flex, and the pen to stick. Is there any point to "wet" out the pen with water to lessen the tape winding on the fastener?
Another question: I would appreciate any suggestions of a quality (perhaps value is the better term ) countersink brand that would make process easier.

A side note: When I removed the 25 year old electrical panel on my Cal a few years ago I noted it was sealed with Butyl. Still dry underneath, and no sign of water intrusion to the surroundings!

A great post.....Thanks!
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  #272  
Old 09-03-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Greetings! I do hate to bother you. But, after reading this excellent post on the use of butyl and countersinking, which I will be using when I install stanchions on my boat, I felt compelled to ask a slightly different question. I recently purchased a 1969 Yankee Dolphin. The handrails have been sanded/eroded by weather so badly that they are literally pencil thin. I have bought new ones and am ready to tackle replacement. There is absolutely no evidence of water intrusion inside the cabin where the bolts that hold the rail pass through the roof. I'd like to keep it that way. Can you advise me how to properly bed the handrails from underneath? Perhaps a tutorial on attaching teak deck fittings from below? Thank you for your time, I look forward to your advice.

Eric
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  #273  
Old 09-03-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

have you read this one? Sealing Deck Penetrations to Prevent Core Rot Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com
should be used when attached from above or below
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  #274  
Old 09-03-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Yes, I read that tutorial as well. I'm not understanding if he is suggesting this method when changing existing deck hardware that shows no signs of water intrusion. I was thinking I would use this butyl method, i.e. countersinking the existing holes (if they haven't been done originally), and then attaching them from below.
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  #275  
Old 09-04-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

The butyl should be between the handrail and the deck, with a countersink on the cabin top where the fastener exits the cabin top and enters the handrail. Never use sealant - butyl or other types - on the inside of the boat. All that does is guarantee that any leak will enter the core and you won't know it. If a leak does develop you want to know it asap.
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  #276  
Old 09-04-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericb760 View Post
Greetings! I do hate to bother you. But, after reading this excellent post on the use of butyl and countersinking, which I will be using when I install stanchions on my boat, I felt compelled to ask a slightly different question. I recently purchased a 1969 Yankee Dolphin. The handrails have been sanded/eroded by weather so badly that they are literally pencil thin. I have bought new ones and am ready to tackle replacement. There is absolutely no evidence of water intrusion inside the cabin where the bolts that hold the rail pass through the roof. I'd like to keep it that way. Can you advise me how to properly bed the handrails from underneath? Perhaps a tutorial on attaching teak deck fittings from below? Thank you for your time, I look forward to your advice.

Eric
First you dry fit them. If they screw up from below, as many do, mark your centers and pre-drill the rails. Now screw them down dry and make sure they fit. Sometimes, due to cabin top shape, some bases may not fit flush to the deck and may need the proper angle sanded in to them.

Next remove hand rail and countersink each hole then insert each screw through the deck. If you not epoxy potted the deck now is a good time to do so...

Wrap an extra long butyl cone around each screw to hold it in place and cover the bottom of the hand rails in Bed-It butyl leaving just the screw hole showing.. Using a friend align the screws with the holes and begin to tighten each one evenly and slowly.

Once the hand rail is compressing the butyl stop screwing and put body pressure on the hand rail from above to displace the butyl. Go snug the screws. Do this again and again until the butyl stops oozing out. DO NOT use the screws to compress the butyl as they can be stripped out of the teak.

It is best to epoxy seal the bottoms of the hand rails where the butyl is to prevent the finish from lifting....
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 09-04-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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  #277  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

This is the genoa track on our CS-36T as photographed at year 31. The track is still bedded with the original butyl tape she left the factory with in 1979. The track, 31 years later, is still BONE DRY, does not leak and has not leaked in 31 years and 50,000+ nautical miles. We run a 150 genny most of the year, just as the previous owner did so this track sees some heavy loads.

I've seen some less than 4 year old boats bedded with Satan's Glue or its relatives dripping wet with rust stained bolts and wet core at year four and sometimes earlier.

This genny track was installed without countersinking the holes. Just an aluminum genoa track bedded with butyl tape in 1979. Bevel the holes and it will probably go 70 years without a leak..






Maine,

Thanks for your helpful advice here and elsewhere. I plan to order some of your butyl soon, before I begin to reinstall my deck hardware. I will pot all holes with epoxy and countersink before applying the butyl.

One question about your experience with the genny track on your own boat. You've had great success at keeping the water out, even though the holes were not countersunk (and evidently not potted with epoxy). Good butyl alone has done the job. The genny track on my boat, at some point before I owned it, allowed water to enter at several points. The evidence for this is that several of the screws are rusty below deck. The amount of water must have been minimal, because there is no evidence of core rot anywhere. The genny track is the only piece of hardware that I've not removed, but I think it would be smart to go ahead and remove it and rebed it with butyl. The only thing is this - I really want to avoid having to pot every single one of the blasted holes beneath the genny track. The hardware for this track is overkill to the max. There are 40 screws (in double rows on each side of the boat). Thus there are 80 total holes that I would have to pot. Do you know of anyone in my situation who's been able to get away with rebedding the genny track with your good butyl alone?

Thanks for any advice in this,
Roscoe

Ericson 25, #226, Oystercatcher
Charleston, SC
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  #278  
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Sometime you have to make compromises and butyl alones should do the trick. Potting with epoxy is great practice but it's a second line of defense that should hopefully never be needed if the primary seal is good. The vast majority of all the holes in boat decks are not potted with epoxy and many do just fine after many years.

If you do think about epoxy I'd consider overdrilling instead of the more time consuming practice of gouging out core through a smaller hole. It sounds like it's a lot of holes but the advantage there is the economy of scale. You might be able to move pretty quickly depending.

The last line of defence against water intrusion is to try to make sure water has a way to get out if it gets in. NEVER seal from the inside. Wood on the outside of the boat lasts for decades after all because although it does get wet it also quickly gets dry.
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  #279  
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Have not done this yet, should work. Take a foot or thick old iron coathanger,
or just iron wire, bend 90 degrees far enough to gouge out the balsa. flatten the end
heat red hot quench in water and chuck it up in an electric drill. If no one tries this before i buy a boat in about a year ill give you a report. An Allen wrench sharpened to a chisel point should work also.
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  #280  
Old 10-01-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Quote:
Maine,

Thanks for your helpful advice here and elsewhere. I plan to order some of your butyl soon, before I begin to reinstall my deck hardware. I will pot all holes with epoxy and countersink before applying the butyl.

One question about your experience with the genny track on your own boat. You've had great success at keeping the water out, even though the holes were not countersunk (and evidently not potted with epoxy). Good butyl alone has done the job. The genny track on my boat, at some point before I owned it, allowed water to enter at several points. The evidence for this is that several of the screws are rusty below deck. The amount of water must have been minimal, because there is no evidence of core rot anywhere. The genny track is the only piece of hardware that I've not removed, but I think it would be smart to go ahead and remove it and rebed it with butyl. The only thing is this - I really want to avoid having to pot every single one of the blasted holes beneath the genny track. The hardware for this track is overkill to the max. There are 40 screws (in double rows on each side of the boat). Thus there are 80 total holes that I would have to pot. Do you know of anyone in my situation who's been able to get away with rebedding the genny track with your good butyl alone?

Thanks for any advice in this,
Roscoe

Ericson 25, #226, Oystercatcher
Charleston, SC
#1 Most genny tracks are concave on the bottom to hold a certain thickness of sealant. This "sort of" takes the place of a countersunk hole. I still prefer to countersink. If your genny track is flat based then you definitely want to countersink.

#2 Why on early ANY builder would run a genny track through cored material is beyond me..... Doh'!!!! It is a crappy job but ideally potting the holes is the best method.

#3 The butyl will work fine alone the potting is only there as a back up in case you goof up or 30 years later you get a leak... But still a genny track through a cored deck is cost cutting 101....

#4 On the other hand its a 25 footer and your time in potting 80 holes might exceed the value of the job, so just re-bed and go sailing.....
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