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  #281  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

This is the genoa track on our CS-36T as photographed at year 31. The track is still bedded with the original butyl tape she left the factory with in 1979. The track, 31 years later, is still BONE DRY, does not leak and has not leaked in 31 years and 50,000+ nautical miles. We run a 150 genny most of the year, just as the previous owner did so this track sees some heavy loads.

I've seen some less than 4 year old boats bedded with Satan's Glue or its relatives dripping wet with rust stained bolts and wet core at year four and sometimes earlier.

This genny track was installed without countersinking the holes. Just an aluminum genoa track bedded with butyl tape in 1979. Bevel the holes and it will probably go 70 years without a leak..






Maine,

Thanks for your helpful advice here and elsewhere. I plan to order some of your butyl soon, before I begin to reinstall my deck hardware. I will pot all holes with epoxy and countersink before applying the butyl.

One question about your experience with the genny track on your own boat. You've had great success at keeping the water out, even though the holes were not countersunk (and evidently not potted with epoxy). Good butyl alone has done the job. The genny track on my boat, at some point before I owned it, allowed water to enter at several points. The evidence for this is that several of the screws are rusty below deck. The amount of water must have been minimal, because there is no evidence of core rot anywhere. The genny track is the only piece of hardware that I've not removed, but I think it would be smart to go ahead and remove it and rebed it with butyl. The only thing is this - I really want to avoid having to pot every single one of the blasted holes beneath the genny track. The hardware for this track is overkill to the max. There are 40 screws (in double rows on each side of the boat). Thus there are 80 total holes that I would have to pot. Do you know of anyone in my situation who's been able to get away with rebedding the genny track with your good butyl alone?

Thanks for any advice in this,
Roscoe

Ericson 25, #226, Oystercatcher
Charleston, SC
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  #282  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Sometime you have to make compromises and butyl alones should do the trick. Potting with epoxy is great practice but it's a second line of defense that should hopefully never be needed if the primary seal is good. The vast majority of all the holes in boat decks are not potted with epoxy and many do just fine after many years.

If you do think about epoxy I'd consider overdrilling instead of the more time consuming practice of gouging out core through a smaller hole. It sounds like it's a lot of holes but the advantage there is the economy of scale. You might be able to move pretty quickly depending.

The last line of defence against water intrusion is to try to make sure water has a way to get out if it gets in. NEVER seal from the inside. Wood on the outside of the boat lasts for decades after all because although it does get wet it also quickly gets dry.
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  #283  
Old 09-30-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Have not done this yet, should work. Take a foot or thick old iron coathanger,
or just iron wire, bend 90 degrees far enough to gouge out the balsa. flatten the end
heat red hot quench in water and chuck it up in an electric drill. If no one tries this before i buy a boat in about a year ill give you a report. An Allen wrench sharpened to a chisel point should work also.
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  #284  
Old 10-01-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Quote:
Maine,

Thanks for your helpful advice here and elsewhere. I plan to order some of your butyl soon, before I begin to reinstall my deck hardware. I will pot all holes with epoxy and countersink before applying the butyl.

One question about your experience with the genny track on your own boat. You've had great success at keeping the water out, even though the holes were not countersunk (and evidently not potted with epoxy). Good butyl alone has done the job. The genny track on my boat, at some point before I owned it, allowed water to enter at several points. The evidence for this is that several of the screws are rusty below deck. The amount of water must have been minimal, because there is no evidence of core rot anywhere. The genny track is the only piece of hardware that I've not removed, but I think it would be smart to go ahead and remove it and rebed it with butyl. The only thing is this - I really want to avoid having to pot every single one of the blasted holes beneath the genny track. The hardware for this track is overkill to the max. There are 40 screws (in double rows on each side of the boat). Thus there are 80 total holes that I would have to pot. Do you know of anyone in my situation who's been able to get away with rebedding the genny track with your good butyl alone?

Thanks for any advice in this,
Roscoe

Ericson 25, #226, Oystercatcher
Charleston, SC
#1 Most genny tracks are concave on the bottom to hold a certain thickness of sealant. This "sort of" takes the place of a countersunk hole. I still prefer to countersink. If your genny track is flat based then you definitely want to countersink.

#2 Why on early ANY builder would run a genny track through cored material is beyond me..... Doh'!!!! It is a crappy job but ideally potting the holes is the best method.

#3 The butyl will work fine alone the potting is only there as a back up in case you goof up or 30 years later you get a leak... But still a genny track through a cored deck is cost cutting 101....

#4 On the other hand its a 25 footer and your time in potting 80 holes might exceed the value of the job, so just re-bed and go sailing.....
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  #285  
Old 10-01-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Good deal Maine. Many thanks for the tips. Will place an order for your top notch butyl as soon as I can get a good estimate for the total feet I'll need. Will be rebedding not only all the deck hardware (and genny track), but also the portlights. Though it's only 25 feet overall, I can imagine that I'll need more than I'm currently estimating off the top of my head.
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  #286  
Old 10-27-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

I have a transom-hung rudder, with two gudgeons mounted on the transom. When I replaced them last year I bedded them with MaineSail's butyl tape, since they are both above the waterline. I cranked down on the screws as much as I could, but toward the end of the season they loosened up. These things have big bronze backing plates and lock nuts, so I know the screws did not loosen. The butyl apparently oozed out enough for the bedding to become a little thinner.

Is butyl the right application for this, or should I look for a curing sealant to bed the gudgeons? If the latter, what would you recommend?

FWIW, I am replacing the Phillips head bolts with hex head, so in the future I should be able tighten them up mid-season without having to remove the rudder.
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  #287  
Old 10-28-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I have a transom-hung rudder, with two gudgeons mounted on the transom. When I replaced them last year I bedded them with MaineSail's butyl tape, since they are both above the waterline. I cranked down on the screws as much as I could, but toward the end of the season they loosened up. These things have big bronze backing plates and lock nuts, so I know the screws did not loosen. The butyl apparently oozed out enough for the bedding to become a little thinner.

Is butyl the right application for this, or should I look for a curing sealant to bed the gudgeons? If the latter, what would you recommend?

FWIW, I am replacing the Phillips head bolts with hex head, so in the future I should be able tighten them up mid-season without having to remove the rudder.
This is why I stress over, and over, and over again tighten SLOWLY, WAIT, TIGHTEN SOME MORE, WAIT, TIGHTEN SOME MORE... when the butyl STOPS oozing then the fitting is tight. The larger the fitting the longer the process..... The butyl did what it is supposed to do, the just missed installer a step.. keep tightening until it stops oozing and you'll be fine.
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  #288  
Old 10-28-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
This is why I stress over, and over, and over again tighten SLOWLY, WAIT, TIGHTEN SOME MORE, WAIT, TIGHTEN SOME MORE... when the butyl STOPS oozing then the fitting is tight. The larger the fitting the longer the process..... The butyl did what it is supposed to do, the just missed installer a step.. keep tightening until it stops oozing and you'll be fine.
That's what I did for a few days, but I had to stop tightening after installing the rudder because it prevented me reaching the bolts with a screwdriver. Hopefully with the hex heads I'll be able to continue tightening after the rudder is re-installed.
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  #289  
Old 10-28-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
That's what I did for a few days, but I had to stop tightening after installing the rudder because it prevented me reaching the bolts with a screwdriver. Hopefully with the hex heads I'll be able to continue tightening after the rudder is re-installed.
You should not need to take it apart and start over unless you want to move to HEX. Sometimes placing a heat lamp on the parts can accelerate the displacement portion of the project from a few weeks of spread out small tightening events to a couple of days.......

I once had a t-top / tower install on a sport fishing boat that took three weeks to stop displacing. Owner kept insisting we were done yet I would keep telling him we were not, these bases are quite large. When he would check on it in a few days it was still slowly displacing. I know there is a tendency to stop tightening because it may feel tight but this product is purposely quite dense as the displacement step forces the butyl into every nook and cranny and keeps it in tension.

I can also tell you that deck core, even when dry, will CRUSH, before Bed-It Butyl Tape is fully displaced, if you take it too fast... It is purposely designed to flow like Molasses up hill in January, just be patient with it...
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 10-28-2013 at 07:41 AM.
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  #290  
Old 10-28-2013
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Re: Bedding Deck Hardware With Butyl Tape

I can now understand the need to wait during tightening.

I took my deck handrails off for refinishing/rebidding earlier this year. I reattached them while it was still starting to warm up. I tightened the bolts and as the weather warmed up, the butyl would ooze out more as it warmed up. I haven't seen any leaks since.
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