Solent Stay? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #11  
Old 04-25-2010
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,578
Thanks: 9
Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 14
RichH will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillybar View Post
Problem: Beneteau 461 quickly gets over powered going to wind with 140% roller furling Genoa. Rolling (reefing) the Genoa not a good option.

Solution: (a) Install Solent stay and use hank on Jib for Breezy conditions.
(b) Buy a wire or spectra luff Jib.

Pros and cons? Better options?

Thanks guys
You CANNOT 'just add' a solent steay without appropriate 'reaction' stay, such as an additional backstay or running backstay (or horrors, intermediate stays)

If you dont have a 'reactor' for the solent, the backstay will react with both forestays; hence, each will be at ~1/2 the tension of the backstay. The result will be a god-awful shape of EITHER the genoa or whats on the solent.
If you dont elect to add an additional 'reactor' when adding a solent you will have the problem of 'differential' (changeable) loads in the head wire dpending on 'how much Sail Area is exposed .... and then the stay that is not supporting a 'flying' sail will receive 'most' of the tension and the stay flying the unfurled sail will UNLOAD .... the unloaded stay (with sail flying) will cause a extremely 'powered up' sail, sagged off to leeward (BAD pointing configuration, the draft will become 'aft' .... the boat will NOT point, will hell aggressively when going to weather, and the boat will be SLOW.

Your signs and symptoms kind of suggest that your present rigging is too damn loose (creating a slack forestay). So, suggest you contact a rigger who also races to assure that the rig tension is CORRECT for your sailing venue ..... THEN contact a sailmaker to possible correct the luff shape ... and possibly add a foam luff, etc. so that you can REEF the foresail. Note: most properly designed and cut foresails can be 'reefed' by 30+% and still have a modicum of proper sail shape. 140% X 70% = 98%
Question: What happens when you reef the MAIN down to the first reef, down to the second reef?
If you're reefing he the jib instead of the MAINSAIL, maybe you might consider reefing the mainsail first.


Otherwise if you have a double tracked furling foil .... buy another but smaller jib/genoa and learn how to 'peel' a foresail (changing jib using one foil and while sailing).

:-)

Last edited by RichH; 04-25-2010 at 06:21 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 04-25-2010
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 6,750
Thanks: 0
Thanked 49 Times in 40 Posts
Rep Power: 6
mitiempo will become famous soon enough
The advantage of a Solent stay is that it does not require running backs if properly installed. It is not a staysail stay.
Boat Modifications

And from Brion Toss on Spartalk (the boat being discussed is a Catalina 42)
Attached Thumbnails
Solent Stay?-3.jpg  
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 04-25-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
The only real issue with a solent stay is that you will probably want to detach it when not in use, so that the genny doesn't chafe against it when you tack.

Most solent stays I've seen setup used a hyfield lever to quickly attach and tension the solent stay, yet allow it to be detached and moved out of the way when not in use.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 04-25-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 226
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
dillybar is on a distinguished road
Thanks for the replies Guys. Just to clarify the main is a hollow leached furler so the Genoa is the power sail. I suppose I could just set a 100% jib on the furler and live with the loss of drive in moderate conditions but I'm looking for a better solution if possible. There are no plans to go off shore but the west coast of Vancouver Island and Juan de Fuca are in the works in June/July. As far as the Genoa working when rolled, I'm going out with the sail maker next week to verify if the sail and rig are working as designed. But in my experience after a few rolls the just don't go to wind very well at at all. We'll see what he says when were out there.
If I had a full roached conventional main a 100 or 110 Jib would be an easy decision.
A guy on another site was talking about a Spectra luffed jib tensioned with the gennaker halyard as an alternative to a Solent stay. If workable it would seem to be the simplest to implement. You don't need rigging work done and it all goes in the sail bag when not in use. Could you tension the luff enough with a halyard winch? Any one have experience with this system? Might need a snuffer to get it under control in a blow.

Last edited by dillybar; 04-25-2010 at 09:55 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 04-26-2010
wwilson's Avatar
Chesapeake Sailor
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Herrington Harbor, MD
Posts: 579
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 14
wwilson is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
wwilson
I wouldn't go offshore in a boat with only a furler with a 140 on it.
Huh? Who was going?
__________________
Wayne
s/v Virginia Dare
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 04-26-2010
jjablonowski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bristol, Rhode Island
Posts: 373
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
jjablonowski is on a distinguished road
Question, dillybar: Would the genoa be more usable in a blow if it had beefed-up luff foam to take out some of the baggyness when it's reefed/partially furled?

Or, you might want to check out the latest (May 2010) issue of Sail Magazine and an article, "Riders on the Storm," that looks at two roller-furling-friendly storm jibs. The ATM Gale Sail and the Banner Bay Storm Bag.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 04-26-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
One major advantage of a storm sail on a solent stay is that the center of effort shifts aft and down... making the boat far more stable and steady.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjablonowski View Post
Question, dillybar: Would the genoa be more usable in a blow if it had beefed-up luff foam to take out some of the baggyness when it's reefed/partially furled?

Or, you might want to check out the latest (May 2010) issue of Sail Magazine and an article, "Riders on the Storm," that looks at two roller-furling-friendly storm jibs. The ATM Gale Sail and the Banner Bay Storm Bag.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 04-26-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 226
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
dillybar is on a distinguished road
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjablonowski View Post
Question, dillybar: Would the genoa be more usable in a blow if it had beefed-up luff foam to take out some of the baggyness when it's reefed/partially furled?

Or, you might want to check out the latest (May 2010) issue of Sail Magazine and an article, "Riders on the Storm," that looks at two roller-furling-friendly storm jibs. The ATM Gale Sail and the Banner Bay Storm Bag.
I will try and find that article. Anyone have experience with either? And ya, the further you roll the genoa regardless of shape the further the Center of effort goes up so I find the drive / heel ratio goes the wrong way quickly the more you reef.
Again, I will report back after I've had the sail maker on board later this week and if he can trim that sail to beat in 20 knts with the rail dry I will re think this whole thread
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 04-26-2010
wwilson's Avatar
Chesapeake Sailor
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Herrington Harbor, MD
Posts: 579
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 14
wwilson is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillybar View Post
If I had a full roached conventional main a 100 or 110 Jib would be an easy decision.
d,

Are you certain that your furling main has left you so short that the 140% should be your "standard" headsail? You know your boat better than I, but I sail a boat with a full batten, full roach main and have had a chance to sail her with two of her sister-ships that carried furling mains.

All three of us agreed that 1) the full batten main allowed a bit higher pointing angle and 2) the difference in speed was not significant enough that it couldn't be accounted for in any number of other ways: e.g. condition of bottoms, sail trim, helmsmanship, etc.

The full batten, full roach main is a more powerful sail, but you may be selling your furling main too short. A change to a smaller headsail may be just what the Bene needs. Certainly it is a less invasive solution than a solent stay - which will end up a PITA in short order, unless you are crossing oceans!
__________________
Wayne
s/v Virginia Dare
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 04-26-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 226
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
dillybar is on a distinguished road
Thanks everyone for the input. This site is great for getting varying opinions before making decisions on this kind of stuff.
A good friend of mine who has sailed and raced around here for almost 40 years suggested that I might want to consider a smaller fore sail when I replaced the original stuff. But as a long time motor bike racer the very thought of giving up power did not compute. Can't ever remember when I had too much power on a bike. Boats aren't bikes...maybe should have listened to Sven.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My new Solent Stay? downeast450 Sailboat Design and Construction 9 01-27-2010 11:35 AM
Stay or Go? PalmettoSailor Chesapeake Bay 19 10-02-2009 10:19 AM
Back Stay Adjustment tdw Gear & Maintenance 9 11-15-2006 12:41 AM
solent rig with double headsails downwind lmitchell Gear & Maintenance 1 11-14-2006 06:42 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:30 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012