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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #21  
Old 04-27-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
The advantage of a Solent stay is that it does not require running backs if properly installed. It is not a staysail stay.
Boat Modifications

And from Brion Toss on Spartalk (the boat being discussed is a Catalina 42)
Sorry but that is a GREAT misconception and a dangerous recommendation. If you calculate all the reaction loads (trigonometric solution to get all the X,Y loads), to maintain the SAME forestay load and adding a 'solent' you HAVE to apply an additional backstay, intermediates OR runners - aint NO other way to do this unless you dont have any idea nor care about good headsail shape.
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  #22  
Old 04-27-2010
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A guy on another site was talking about a Spectra luffed jib tensioned with the gennaker halyard as an alternative to a Solent stay. If workable it would seem to be the simplest to implement. You don't need rigging work done and it all goes in the sail bag when not in use. Could you tension the luff enough with a halyard winch? Any one have experience with this system? Might need a snuffer to get it under control in a blow.[/QUOTE]

That is probably the BEST response to your scheme!
You can additionally tension such with a cunningham ... and that will provide 'adjustabiliity' as to where you want the position of 'maximum draft' to occur. The spectra boltrope only attached to the head, the luff in a sleeve, and the bottom panels tensioned/shaped by the cunningham.
:-)
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  #23  
Old 04-27-2010
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Solent stays are for masthead rigs only, as far as I know. The attachment point has to be close to masthead. I think within 12-18 inches. That is why no additional stays are needed. Also the solent stay does not have to be parralel to the forestay as some believe. I think they are a simple solution for a storm jib .
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  #24  
Old 04-27-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXBOT View Post
That is why no additional stays are needed..
If you add any additional stay to the 'fore' the tension on each will be ONE HALF that of the backstay. With one half 'normal' tension (~15%), each will be at 7.5% and then the luff curve (luff hollow) that the sailmaker cut into the leading edge of each sail will no long 'match' the expected SAG as the sailmaker expected ... each sail (each operating on a stay that is at ONE HALF - or less - of its expected tension) will create a very DRAFT AFT, SAGGING OFF TO LEEWARD luff .... a very 'powered up' sail that will NOT be able to POINT. That why solent rigs (added solent stay without a 'reactor') are ONLY good for beam to downwind sailing !!!!

For each of the 2 forward stays (headstay + solent stay) to be at ~15%, you will need to increase the combined backstay(S) tension to 30% (going above 30% greatly reduces the fatigue life of most rigging components).

So, if one adds a solent stay and 'no other' reactor stay, one must get the jib/genoa luff (hollow) RECUT to match the reduced (~1/2) tension in their carrying stays.
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Old 04-27-2010
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you only rig the solent stay when you use storm jib, if it is not rigged when 100% jib or genoa is being used how is it going to affect anything?
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Old 04-27-2010
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RichH is right, it would give you a terrible headsail shape if you didn't really tighten the backstay down hard, or loosen the forestay. It doesn't seem completely unreasonable to simply loosen your forestay turnbuckle when flying on the solent stay. However, a solent stay is the wrong solution for the OP. There are situations where a solent stay is a viable solution, but they would probably require cutting a custom sail.

At that point a wire-luff storm jib starts seeming mighty realistic.

Last edited by tager; 04-27-2010 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 04-27-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXBOT View Post
you only rig the solent stay when you use storm jib, if it is not rigged when 100% jib or genoa is being used how is it going to affect anything?
How it will affect EVERYTHING:
Unless you almost totally UNLOAD the static stress on the OEM forestay, the solent will SHARE the backstay load .... and the storm sail is going to have its luff "mightly sagged off to leeward". The sail stress loads from the storm jib will cause the (unloaded) forestay to 'load up' all the while and correspondingly the solent stay UNLOADING its tension. When the solent stay unloads, the sailshape becomes 'sagged to leeward', draft aft .... and that is DANGEROUS if/when you NEED to fly a STORM jib.
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Why then does Selden who makes masts and who I suppose employs people who know about this stuff state that if the attachment point for the stay is between 3 and 6 percent of the foretriangle height below forestay attachment point running backs are not required? Maybe we need someone like Brion Toss to come on and clear this up. I certainly cannot say anything definite about the issue.
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  #29  
Old 04-27-2010
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Brion Toss has said on his forums:

Quote:
One other option I'd consider would be a Solent stay, which doesn't need runners at all, and which also allows for a hank-on drifter. So you can bracket both sides of the Genoa's range on the Solent.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
This combined with the information from Selden Spars, which states:

Quote:
"(if) the cutter stay is located 3 - 6% of the height of the foretriangle below the existing forestay ... (then) ... running back-stays are not required"
Based on these two statements, I'd say that if the solent stay is attached to the mast within 3-6% of the foretriangle height, then running backs are not needed.

I'd point out that Brion Toss also says:

Quote:
Hello,
There is no reason not to install a Solent on your rig, so long as wire size and tune are done correctly. The only faint alarm here is that fractional rigs are harder to tune well than masthead ones, and adding a Solent could compound a bad tune. The aft-swept caps will indeed provide the majority of the aft staying, but the backstay also has a significant effect, which will vary according to mast stiffness and how close to the top the stays come.
Therefore be sure to run your numbers on scantlings, and be very sure of your tune. As with a masthead rig, the relative tune of the two stays is crucial.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
regarding the installation of a solent stay on a FRACTIONAL rig.
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Last edited by sailingdog; 04-27-2010 at 10:39 PM.
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  #30  
Old 04-27-2010
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If anyone read the item I posted earlier in this thread it was from Spartalk, which is Brion Toss's forum. It was to a post by Brion Toss specifically suggesting a solent stay as they do not need runners. He is one of the most experienced riggers in the US. I'll take his word for this. Here it is again.
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Last edited by mitiempo; 04-27-2010 at 10:40 PM. Reason: add
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