Tartan T30 Forestay question

[Talyn]

We have a Tartan T30 (standard rig) and need to get a new forestay.

Trouble is we can't just measure the old one because it was cut for a Harken MkII furler.

Trying to measure it we are getting different results every time and it seems a might short.
We're getting measured lengths that average around 40' even, where as a calculation based on JIPE is 41.1...

now that's about a foot difference

Does anyone have the specs or knows where I might find them?

I have contacted both Tartan and the Tartan Owners Chesapeake association, but have yet to hear back.

Any help is appreciated.
Cheers

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Talyn

We have a Tartan T30 (standard rig) and need to get a new forestay.

Trouble is we can't just measure the old one because it was cut for a Harken MkII furler.

Trying to measure it we are getting different results every time and it seems a might short.
We're getting measured lengths that average around 40' even, where as a calculation based on JIPE is 41.1...

now that's about a foot difference

Does anyone have the specs or knows where I might find them?

I have contacted both Tartan and the Tartan Owners Chesapeake association, but have yet to hear back.

Any help is appreciated.
Cheers

I'm assuming that you don't have the Harken drum then? Or else you don't know where it was adjusted?

I have a book at work that gives me the headstay lengths for most boats and will look it up tomorrow. I have to warn you though that you shouldn't really have a new stay made up from anything but a measurement of your existing pin to pin length.

If your mast is stepped and you don't have a forestay, you need to adjust your backstay turnbuckle/s to the desired setting and then pull the mast forward as tight as you safely can using halyards. Then send someone aloft with the dumb end of a tape and get a proper length.

[fordo]

Do you still have the furler? Are you putting it back on, or shifting to hank on jibs? You should be able to measure the stay and add the distance between the attachment points on the furler to come up with the length. In any event, you must calculate from the old stay or measure the length from the masthead to the chainplate. I would never rely on a length from a plan. Alot may have happened as they built her and that was 32 years ago. Measure.

[Talyn]

Originally Posted by knothead

I'm assuming that you don't have the Harken drum then? Or else you don't know where it was adjusted?

I have a book at work that gives me the headstay lengths for most boats and will look it up tomorrow. I have to warn you though that you shouldn't really have a new stay made up from anything but a measurement of your existing pin to pin length.

If your mast is stepped and you don't have a forestay, you need to adjust your backstay turnbuckle/s to the desired setting and then pull the mast forward as tight as you safely can using halyards. Then send someone aloft with the dumb end of a tape and get a proper length.

Thank you I will appreciate any hard data I can find, the owner's book does not specify length at all, just breaking strength.

From your advise and fordo's I think I will take the foils and drum off, and take the shortened forestay and drum to the store together.

Incidentally, have you had experience with liverpool spliced s.s. wire?

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Talyn

Thank you I will appreciate any hard data I can find, the owner's book does not specify length at all, just breaking strength.

From your advise and fordo's I think I will take the foils and drum off, and take the shortened forestay and drum to the store together.

Incidentally, have you had experience with liverpool spliced s.s. wire?

I have measurements for the following;

Tartan 30' - 41.11'
Tartan 30 3/4 ton -43.01'
Tartan 3000 - 40.95'

I still don't understand why, if you have the drum, you can't just measure Pin to Pin.

[Talyn]

Originally Posted by knothead

I have measurements for the following;

Tartan 30' - 41.11'
Tartan 30 3/4 ton -43.01'
Tartan 3000 - 40.95'

I still don't understand why, if you have the drum, you can't just measure Pin to Pin.

we did measure, but my confusion was the 12" difference between the calculated length which is the same as your figure for the Tartan 30' - 41.1', and the actual length that we measured: 40' even

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Talyn

we did measure, but my confusion was the 12" difference between the calculated length which is the same as your figure for the Tartan 30' - 41.1', and the actual length that we measured: 40' even

Okay, you need to forget the "calculated length" even if it agrees with the measurement that I gave you out of the book.
If you have the old headstay and all of the parts that made it, like toggles, link plates and the drum itself. And if you haven't changed or can reestablish the adjustment of the Harken integral turnbuckle. Then you just need to trust the tape.
If it was working and you can measure it, it will work again. Just measure it and tell the rigger whether or not the measurement includes the top toggle.

Is there something about the old forestay that you've not mentioned?
Did you never see the headstay installed and are therefore not sure it's the right length?
Was the mast raked really far forward?
Was the Harken loosened and you don't know where to reset it?
Was it damaged?
Are you missing parts?

I don't get it.

[Talyn]

Originally Posted by knothead

Okay, you need to forget the "calculated length" even if it agrees with the measurement that I gave you out of the book.
If you have the old headstay and all of the parts that made it, like toggles, link plates and the drum itself. And if you haven't changed or can reestablish the adjustment of the Harken integral turnbuckle. Then you just need to trust the tape.
If it was working and you can measure it, it will work again. Just measure it and tell the rigger whether or not the measurement includes the top toggle.

Is there something about the old forestay that you've not mentioned?
Did you never see the headstay installed and are therefore not sure it's the right length?
Was the mast raked really far forward?
Was the Harken loosened and you don't know where to reset it?
Was it damaged?
Are you missing parts?

I don't get it.

I have re-measured it a third time prior to removing the furling drum assembly and the measurement is good (same as the two before).
Yes, I have seen installed for a year, and yes the mast was raked a touch forward - I suspect that was because we had a 150% on the furler.
There are no damaged or missing parts.

I will take the measured length to the rigger on Thursday to have it made.

Knothead, have you had experience with liverpool splices?

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Talyn

Knothead, have you had experience with liverpool splices?

Very little. I have a guy that I use on the rare occasion that I need them.

[Talyn]

You don't feel the flexibility of the splice versus the crimped or swaged terminal end offers an advantage over the point fatigue at the end of the terminal body?

What about mechanical end fittings such as Norseman?

Originally Posted by knothead

Very little. I have a guy that I use on the rare occasion that I need them.