What's better than putting vinegar in your heads?

[Bene505]

Everyone knows about the time-tested method of putting vinegar in your heads to prevent scale from building up...

So what's better than putting vinegar in your heads?
.
.
.
.
Putting you heads in vinegar, of course!



Regards,
Brad

[svHyLyte]

Brad,

From the snap it appears that the discharge fitting on the bottom of the pump barrel is still connected. I assume that is for the purpose of keeping all the parts together but if not, it would be wise to remove the fitting and discard the old joker valve. (That looks like a Brydon Boy head. If so, hopefully you have replacement parts. They are becomming very rare!)

Likewise if you have not removed the valve fittings and flappers at the top of the pump and the old lip-seal at the top of the cyclinder head. The little wire spring the holds the lips of the lip seal snug against the cyclinder rod doesn't like rust but also doesn't like acid as the wire is so fine.

In future you may find that either Salt-Away or Ryd-Lime are more effective than Vinegar.

FWIW...

[davidpm]

Is this called thinking out of the bottle?

[RichH]

Any biodegradeable commercial boiler de-scaler will work ... much much better than vinegar. RydLyme, etc.

Next time you descale your engine, simply pump the discharge of the boiler descaler into the toilet AND its discharge lines - let soak. Most of these commercial descalers are biodegradeable - so you can pump overboard or into the holding tank when done soaking.

You should not only 'descale' the toilet but also THE DISCHARGE LINES. especially if you are located in SALT WATER.

Rydlyme.net or Rydlyme.com or most/many marine diesel engine suppliers, etc.

[Bene505]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Bread,

From the snap it appears that the discharge fitting on the bottom of the pump barrel is still connected. I assume that is for the purpose of keeping all the parts together but if not, it would be wise to remove the fitting and discard the old joker valve. (That looks like a Brydon Boy head. If so, hopefully you have replacement parts. They are becomming very rare!)

Likewise if you have not removed the valve fittings and flappers at the top of the pump and the old lip-seal at the top of the cyclinder head. The little wire spring the holds the lips of the lip seal snug against the cyclinder rod doesn't like rust but also doesn't like acid as the wire is so fine.

In future you may find that either Salt-Away or Rud-Lime are more effective than Vinegar.

FWIW...

Thanks for the reply svHyLyte, I didn't think about the parts inside the pump. Yes to the joker valve though, which I can see just inside the little angled tube. It's all crusted over. As a result, it leaves an opening between the flaps. That is actually the reason for the disassembly. I have new ones from West Marine to put in, once the head is done with it's spa treatment.

I guess the couple capfuls of On&Off that I put in might harm the little springs. When I do the other 2 heads, I ought to leave the stronger acid out.

Regards,
Brad

[Bene505]

Originally Posted by davidpm

Is this called thinking out of the bottle?

Perhaps. The bowl was heavily stained. It seemed the best way to soak it clean. There is a very distinguised fellow sailnetter that often joins me for a sail. If the head isn't clean he let his attack dog loose.

If this doesn't work on the stains, I may try 1) actually scrubbing the bowl or 2) inverting just the bowl in a deep-ish pan and using something really strong.

Regards,
Brad

[Bene505]

Originally Posted by RichH

Any biodegradeable commercial boiler de-scaler will work ... much much better than vinegar. RydLyme, etc.

Next time you descale your engine, simply pump the discharge of the boiler descaler into the toilet AND its discharge lines - let soak. Most of these commercial descalers are biodegradeable - so you can pump overboard or into the holding tank when done soaking.

You should not only 'descale' the toilet but also THE DISCHARGE LINES. especially if you are located in SALT WATER.

Rydlyme.net or Rydlyme.com or most/many marine diesel engine suppliers, etc.

Thanks Rich. Not sure what I'm going to do about the hoses. I may replace them or use the "beat them on the end of the dock" method. Only I'd probably use my driveway and then pick up the pieces.

Should I post more pictures? Those hoses are really scaled inside.

Regards,
Brad

[karlhead]

Originally Posted by Bene505

Everyone knows about the time-tested method of putting vinegar in your heads to prevent scale from building up...

So what's better than putting vinegar in your heads?
.
.
.
.
Putting you heads in vinegar, of course!



Regards,
Brad

A word of caution about vinegar. Vinegar will degrade rubber if left in contact for an extended period.

[svHyLyte]

Brad--

The stains on the porcelain can usually be removed pretty easily with "Wink" or any of the other acid based stain removers. For stubborn stains "Bartender's Friend" will work. More agressive scribbing is unwise as, if the porcelain is scratched, the problem gets worse rather than better. Using acid while the heads in service is contra productive as it also deteriorates rubber seals and O-Rings so, if used, use sparingly and flush really well (I actually mix up a little baking soda and water and pump that through the heads followed by 10 bowl's filled with fresh water).

The stains that bother most people is the discoloration of the inside of the plastic base that the cammode is mounted on. Barkeeper's Friend will work here as well but some discoloration is unavoidable. On our old boat I dismounted the head, removed the base. Cleaned it as well as possible, and after it dried, used a little white spray paint of the type designed for painting plastic models. Appled in several thin layers, this worked well.

The build-up in the discharge hoses is usually a conbination of salt crystals and calcium carbonate which is a sediment in urine. If hoses are heavily coated (and yours may be given your description of your Joker Valve), it will be difficult to clean them in-place. Dumping acid into the lines will break down the material but can also lead to inconsistant disolution which can result in chunks of the material breaking off which can--and almost invariably will at bends in the line--result in blockages as undisolved TP can "hang-up" on these chunks. While there are nay-sayers, products such as Ryd-Lime (for Calcium Carbonate) and Salt-Away (for Salt) will desolve build-up if you can keep the lines filled with the material.

I had to replace all of the waste line hoses on our boat soon after we bought her and with the new hoses in place we put squeeze bottles filled with a mix of Salt-Away and water in each head. Once the bowl is emptied and thoroughly flushed, we put a few squirts of this mix in the bottom of the bowl and give it a few more pumps. With this our Joker Valves have remained free and functional for several years at a time (although I replace them every two years) and the heads run freely. For cleaning we use Raritan's "CP" which does not attack the rubber flapper seals and O-Rings and a periodic flush with Raritan's Head Lube helps the seals and O-Rings remain pliable.

FWIW...

[RichH]

Forgot to mention -
If you use vinegar or descalers, etc. and they get into the holding tank they will 'retard' the aerobic fermentation process that 'should' be taking place. Kill off the beneficial bacteria in the holding tank and the result will be a 'massively stinky holding tank vent'. So, if you use such 'acids' then you are faced with completely rinsing out the holding tank many times to remove/dilute these 'acids'.
After rinsing following descaling, I usually dump in 2 pints of Yogurt down the toilet just to jump-start the 'good bacteria' & get them vigorously growing again.

:-)