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  #1  
Old 07-06-2010
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Keel saga, for those contemplating this procedure for your boat...

Classic brain fart... While working on clearing out the bedding material on the keel yesterday, I managed to forget about the laws of torque and gravity, getting my sawsall blade stuck in the process.

The keel joint has about a 1/4 inch of epoxy around the outside edge of the 5200 bead (yes, 5200) from an apparent attempt at sealing this keel before. Of course, I have to clear all of that out to separate the two. So here I am, happily cutting along while taking care to avoid the keel bolts hidden in the mess, when suddenly, the blade jams and turns to a pretzel.

With judicious use of my multitool, wedges and a mallet, I was finally able to extricate the blade without harming the boat. Needless to say, the customer doesn't get charged for the 1.5 hours I spent getting it out. He didn't forget to use wedges.....

Pictures later today. I'll be nice and keep everything in this one thread for you folks.
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Old 07-06-2010
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LOL... ain't physics a bitch. Good to hear you and the boat are okay... Sawzall blades are relatively inexpensive and if that is all it cost you, you got off pretty lightly.
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Old 07-07-2010
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Phase one of the CS-36M keel rebed is done. Other than having to spend $300 for tools (read as giant sockets and breaker bars) and having a 3/4" breaker bar shatter on one of the bolts (replaced for free), it went well. All of my prep work at separating was worth it as the hull came off in one clean easy lift to be set aside.



and



Chris took a video but had to go to work so I won't have it until tomorrow. Once the keel was separated, they set the hull on stands to the side with the load still on the crane while we cleaned up the mating surface. We applied packing tape to the hull for a mold release and applied epoxy and microballons (like peanut butta) to the top of the keel. They then picked the boat again and set her on the keel nice and slowly. I was too busy working to take pics.

After the hull was back on the keel with about 6,000 Lbs still on the crane, the boys tightened the keel bolt to draw her down. They then eased off and we torqued to 100 Lbs for now. I went around swiping off the excess (and there was a lot of it) and faired the joint as it oozed out.



and



So, she'll sit and cure overnight and then we'll lift her off again in the morning to apply 4200. Once that's done liberally, we'll reset her the last time and torque the keel bolts to full torque.

Then it's on to the rest of the job....
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Old 07-08-2010
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Question

I take it the bolt threads were in good shape?

Would you mind sharing with us the final torque you put on those bolts?

(I had a yard drop and rebed our keel several years ago, and am curious about the exact # of foot pounds)

Cheers,
L
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Old 07-08-2010
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Charlie,

One trick I learned, or actually created, when I did my keel re-set was to rout a v-shaped groove about 1/4" in from the outer edge of the keel around the entire perimeter.

The idea is that when you "butter match" the keel to the hull you will have minimal sealant thickness as the two surfaces are now mirrors of each other.

When the keel & hull flexes, as they do, this thin sealant layer may not have enough thickness to accommodate the movement. By Dremeling a v-groove you have just created a thick gasket spot, like beveling a drilled hole in a deck. This gasket can accommodate significantly more movement than 1/64th of an inch of sealant.

This groove will be outside the bolts and lap the perimeter of the mating surface of the keel. It takes al, of about about ten minutes to do once the keel is dropped and it does not need to be very deep, perhaps 1/8" deep at the most.

Trying to let the sealant cure some to "create a gasket" normally does not work or works to well, cures for too long, and you now can't get the keel tight enough to not induce movement because of the "gasket".

Alternatively you can slightly chamfer the edges of the keel bolt holes on the underside of the hull to create a little more o-ring there. A laminate trimmer and a 45 bearing guide bit works well for this but don't go very deep, just a touch off the edge is all you need. Doing this and the above trick will probably guarantee a dry keel stub for a very, very long time.
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Old 07-08-2010
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The bolt holes in the hull are already chamfered and there's plenty of room for the sealant to fill them, plugging ingress of water.
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Old 07-08-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olson34 View Post
I take it the bolt threads were in good shape?

Would you mind sharing with us the final torque you put on those bolts?

(I had a yard drop and rebed our keel several years ago, and am curious about the exact # of foot pounds)

Cheers,
L
This boat has one inch 316 SS bolts and the final torque on those will be 190 ft lbs.
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Old 07-08-2010
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I am curious where the 190 ft lb number came from? If the bolts are 1"-8 and assuming say 50% efficiency of the thread the clamping load would be about 18,000 lb per bolt. For a 1"-14 and 50% it would be about 32,000 lbs. So how large are the washers, and are they thick enough to take that kind of load without bending? If the bend the load on the center portion increases dramatically. How much compressive load can fiberglass take long term? Maybe 5000 Psi? So that suggests washers with a surface area of 3-1/2 to 6-1/2 square inches for these bolts. When the boat heels over how much tension is applied to the the bolts, and additional compression to the washers?

The reason for my curiosity is that when the keel nearly fell off my Hunter 27 in the early 80s I found the washers bent and the fiberglass under the washers completely pulverized.

Is it possible that the bolts are large in diameter to take bending loads, and should be torqued to a rather low value to avoid crushing the fiberglass?

About 10 years ago I attended the Atlantic City, NJ sailboat show and was sitting on board a J boat. I commented to the salesman that I was impressed with the chainplates on a 32 foot boat that were fastened with 6 3/4" bolts! He replied that the bolts were large for surface area, so they don't tear through the fiberglass bulkheads, and that they had Nylok nutd lightly torqued so as not to crush the bulkhead. I thought wow what a knowledgeable salesman! Then I looked at his name badge. Duh, it was Rod Johnstone, the boat's designer!

Gary H. Lucas
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Old 07-08-2010
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One way to find out, ask the designer Tony Castro. The washers are 8" wide by 4" long and one inch thick.
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Old 07-09-2010
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Thumbs up

Hi Charlie,
Thanks a lot for your input on this forum. I have linked your info back to some keel rebedding forums over at the ericson site (with disclaimers...)


It is great to have real-world input from ship wrights.

Best,

the old Olson guy

Last edited by olson34; 07-09-2010 at 10:54 AM. Reason: details details
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