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Life raft

6K views 21 replies 9 participants last post by  hellosailor 
#1 ·
I'm leaving for the Bahamas departing from Montreal in september (via the intracoastal to New York). The last big piece of equipement left to buy is a life raft. I'm planning to travel along the coast from New York to Miami so mostly coastal cruising there, then do the crossing towards the Bahamas. I have two options for life a raft (the choice of life rafts is very limited in my area, I'm not looking for advice telling me I should go for other model, but advice on wich one of those two I should go towards), the first one would be a very basic Viking Rescyou Coastal 6 person. The second is a Viking Rescyou Pro 6person, which is a offshore life raft. Price wise the first is aroud 2.3k with canister and craddle, the second is around 4k with canister and craddle. My main goal is not to try to save money by all means, but I'm trying not to go overkill if I don't have to. Btw I don't care alot about the packs options that comes with the raft as I have a very well equipped ditch bag. What do you think ?

coastal model:


offshore model:
 
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#2 ·
Check with Viking for boat show specials

I bought a Viking 6 person offshore raft 18 months ago at the New York Boat Show (a useless visit other than for the raft btw) for $2400 not including the special bracket to mount it on the stern pulpit. They only had this model on special and even included free delivery in the spring to our marina (this was about five months after the show and also meant the certification was dated to delivery). I would contact Viking's US office and see if they will have a boat show special at Annapolis or elsewhere that you can take advantage of. I doubt you actually have to go to the show to get the special if there is one. In any case you might well be at Annapolis since it is a popular spot to visit on the way south.

As to which model, I think either would be fine if you are going just to the Bahamas. If you decide that you want to go further you might want to have an offshore raft and it would be cheaper to get it now.
 
#4 ·
I just went through Safety at Sea training and learned first hand that we are all kidding ourselves if we don't get the best life raft features available. An item like an inflatable entry ramp is not just nice to have, its almost mandatory if you expect to get in from the water. An inflatable floor is more important than you might imagine as well. Also know that a 6 person raft is extremely uncomfortable with 6 people in it. Bigger is better.

Since you've limited the choice, get the better equipped of the two.
 
#6 ·
You don't want a raft that is too large since stability might be a problem with too little weight in the raft eg 2 people in an 8 person. A six person makes sense for 2 to 4 people. Six people would be very tight and uncomfortable, I think they allot a 2' x 2' square per person.

Viking make a nice raft for the money. I could not justify the cost of a Givens or other top-end raft.
 
#8 ·
For 2-4 people, an eight person raft is probably too large. The people are considered as part of the overall raft's ballast in the design phase, and having a raft that is too large is not safe. The six person raft is a bit large for two people and probably about right for four... and a bit tight for six.

Get an offshore quality raft with an insulated floor, double tubes, inflatable entry ramp, etc.
 
#9 · (Edited)
reference

For 2-4 people, an eight person raft is probably too large. The people are considered as part of the overall raft's ballast in the design phase, and having a raft that is too large is not safe. The six person raft is a bit large for two people and probably about right for four... and a bit tight for six.

Get an offshore quality raft with an insulated floor, double tubes, inflatable entry ramp, etc.
I'd sure like to know if you have a reference that says a liferaft that is designed for off shore use is unsafe if there aren't enough people in it because all liferafts that are designed to ISO9650 standards are required to be self righting even if they are empty. I'm especially curious how you know about how a raft is designed. I mean after all if you feel you can comment about the design phase of a raft I'd like to know your qualifications for same. Otherwise it's just an opinion.
 
#10 ·
While not a designer or aerodynamicist, I could see how having too few people bouncing around inside a large raft as waves hit it in rough weather could be less fun and more dangerous than the blowup bouncing castle attraction at the fair. My understanding is that the tight fit in liferafts is on purpose. The eight people in an eight-person raft are wedged in so none of them go flying. They become fixed ballast instead of loose cannons. If there are only four people in an 8-person raft, a wave could shift them all to one side and flip the raft. (Is there something to hold on to, or be tied to in the center? I don't know. ) Once flipped, you'd hope the ISO 9650 self-righting standard would work without them all having to get out of it, to make it empty, first.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I asked an expert, Brian Kernahan of OS Safety Equipment and this was his answer:

Dear Sir, re your enquiry number of persons in a liferaft. The numbers indicated, 6, 8,, 12 and so on are the MAXIMUM nr of persons accommodated, within the regulations, in a particular life raft. There is no minimum number, and according to the manufacturers, no compromise on safety so long as the maximum number of persons on the liferaft certificate is not exceeded. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you require any further information.<o>:p></o>:p>
With best regards,<o>:p></o>:p>
Brian K

<o>:p></o>:p>
 
#12 ·
Will be not original. Sorry. But should say: do not use the liferaft until the last moment. In heavy seas even the half-sinked boat is much better and safer than liferaft.

If you and your guests are 4 - buy the liferaft for 4. If 6 - for 6. If 8 - for 8. And if you are 4 but want liferaft for 8 - do not forget to buy large container of flares, huge suitcase of biscuits and 10 liter bottle of iodine. For reliability and comfort :) And if you are 8 but buy liferaft for 4 - don't buy it yet.

Liferaft itself - good thing. But there is one more important thing - what is inside. Try to test the kit. And if fishing hooks are soft (it is not a joke, but reality), fishing lines too thin, plastic bags have some holes, etc - what for?

Some time ago we tested one. Sad. It is your safety gear and You must check by yourself - what they put into.

And be sure to put into emergency kit the pair of women's tights. I'm not kidding. This is not my genius - many years ago an old sailor showed me this trick. And when we "played in a shipwreck" - tights found many applications: to tightly tie; to stop haemorrhage (better than special cords); to filter smth. And experts add: "they still good to collect plankton" - not bad too :)
 
#13 ·
Will be not original. Sorry. But should say: do not use the liferaft until the last moment. In heavy seas even the half-sinked boat is much better and safer than liferaft.

If you and your guests are 4 - buy the liferaft for 4. If 6 - for 6. If 8 - for 8. And if you are 4 but want liferaft for 8 - do not forget to buy large container of flares, huge suitcase of biscuits and 10 liter bottle of iodine. For reliability and comfort :) And if you are 8 but buy liferaft for 4 - don't buy it yet.

Liferaft itself - good thing. But there is one more important thing - what is inside. Try to test the kit. And if fishing hooks are soft (it is not a joke, but reality), fishing lines too thin, plastic bags have some holes, etc - what for?

Some time ago we tested one. It was sad. It is your safety gear and You must check by yourself - what they put into.

And be sure to put into emergency kit the pair of women's tights. I'm not kidding. This is not my genius - many years ago an old sailor showed me this trick. And when we "played in a shipwreck" - tights found many applications: to tightly tie; to stop haemorrhage (better than special cords); to filter smth. And experts add: "they still good to collect plankton" - not bad too :)
 
#14 ·
" Otherwise it's just an opinion."
Yeah, but that opinion is also the considered opinion stated by highly experienced parties in reviews, i.e. BoatUS, Practical Sailor, and Doug Ritter's excellent equipped-to-survive web site.
These are folks who have tested rafts in the water, not just looked at them in the showroom.
You'll probably get the same worthless opinion from the raft makers themselves but they might have engineering data as well.
 
#18 ·
references?



Providing only generic references to prove a point is tantamount to providing no references at all, unless you are a recognized expert yourself. I read BoatUS and subscribe to Practical Sailor and can recall nothing specific that addresses the issue of underloading a life raft and whether or not is can be unsafe. That is why I attempted to get an expert's opinion.

I looked up Doug Ritter's web site and it only lists and sells survival kits, nothing related to life rafts.

With that said, I'm done with this thread.
 
#15 ·
Yes. Magazines - good source of shining paper and pictures of useless things. Showrooms... ISO... Games of managers and salesmen.

You have liferaft, boat, sea and your own brain - what's more? Test your liferaft before service. Easy.

Most of things in our life are much simpler than heap of engineering data from heap of engineers with heap of certificates :)
 
#16 ·
To get back to the original question, it would seem that the Coastal version would meet your needs. You're not heading 1000 miles offshore - you're going to the Bahamas. You'll be sailing in warm (especially for you!) water, during the summer sailing season. It isn't likely to snow, and if you do need to use the raft, it probably won't be for a long period: you're heading to popular sailing destinations, and there will be other boats relatively nearby to come to your aid if needed, possibly within hours. Use the $2000 saved for equipment that can help you avoid needing to use a raft: an internet hookup for weather forecasts; an ssb;, spare pumps; a crash mat... You can think up lots of worthwhile items. Bonnes navigations!
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the inputs, I've contacted Viking life saving equipment to know more about the deals during shows, and so far I am very impresssed by the service they offer, I even got a response at 10:22pm on saturday ! (it's nothing compare to the we don't care about you kinda of response I got from the Viking representative in Canada) . I will probably go for an Rescyou 6 person, buy it in advance and pick it up at the show.
 
#19 ·
"I looked up Doug Ritter's web site and it only lists and sells survival kits, nothing related to life rafts."
ROFL. Apparently you went looking for a vendor and missed the articles and interviews with folks who have spent time in rafts at sea. No, Doug doesn't sell life rafts.
EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Aviation Life Raft Reviews Aviation life raft reviews
The Life Raft: Don't Leave Your Ship Without It - EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) Steve Callahan's article, he only spent 76 days at sea in his life raft.
EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Ditching 11/99 300 miles from Hawaii More from folks who ditched at sea

And if you'd kept looking, links to the PS in-water life raft tests for boat life rafts, which have lead at least manufacturer to change their product as a direct result of the comments on ballast bags.

Mathurin, the only thing that would be relevant for you would be the opinions of Viking, and the comments along the line that if you expect to sail with 2-4 souls on board, you would NOT want a 6-8 person life raft unless you want to get tossed about like shoes in a clothes dryer in rough wx.
 
#20 · (Edited)
HS-

Unfortunately, some people can't be budged from their position once they've made their mind up, regardless of how strong the evidence is.

I'd also question what Brian Kernahan's relevant qualifications for commenting on liferaft design are. Just because he works for a liferaft vendor, in this case as the FINANCE DIRECTOR, it doesn't necessarily qualify him to comment on liferaft design. If he were a liferaft designer that worked for one of the major liferaft manufacturers, then his opinion might be relevant.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to believe Steve Callahan and Doug Ritter than a finance director...but that's just me. I'd point out that Dwayne has a financial motivation to get Mathurin to buy into the big life raft is fine, so his opinion needs to be viewed with that in mind-since he's trying to sell an EIGHT man liferaft.
 
#22 ·
sd-
There was a "soft news" piece in a paper this week about the gent who literally invented the inflatable lift raft for ww2 pilots. Things haven't changed much in 50-60 years, but I keep saying to myself, there's got to be a better way. Something that gets "canned" with a 10-year shelf life, no repacks and nonsense along the way. After all, hermetical sealing is not a new art form, and materials have progressed just a tad since ww2.
Maybe we could get DARPA to offer prize money...
 
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