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mrybas 07-12-2010 06:43 PM

Bright-work refinish with Honey Teak, advice?
 
3 Attachment(s)
Iím about to start laying Honey Teak on my bright work laden boat. So far we have stripped the old coating (I believe it was CetolÖ..it ranged from reddish to dark brown and fairly opaque), washed with 2-part teak cleaner, then sanded with 100-grit/folled with red scuff pad, and just about done taping. I was wondering if anyone has any tips on working with Honey Teak that are not in the directions?
This is my first time using the product and still trying to figure out what techniques work best. The Honey (step one) and Clear (step two) are much lower viscosity than varnish. So far I have done the bowsprit, Samson post, handrails, and dorade boxes and have had troubles with runs on vertical surfaces. Honey Teak also does not seem to fill voids and level out as well as varnish.
The Honey Teak directions also say itís possible to apply all coats in one day. I plan on applying 3 coats of Honey followed by 6-8 coats of clear. If I was going to apply more than one coat per day (cap rail, toe rail, cabin top trim, cockpit coaming, rubrail) I would have to get some people to help. Would I obtain better results by working alone and doing one coat per day, with light sanding between coats. This might help with leveling issues? This is by far the largest wood refinish project I have attempted and would really like to nail it on the first attempt.

sailingdog 07-12-2010 07:59 PM

Damn beautiful work.. :D Can't help with the refinishing issues though, since I avoid bright work like the plague.

RichH 07-12-2010 08:13 PM

I have a Ty37 and can empathize. Ive been using HT for almost 14 years, I usually get 10+ years out of HT before I need to 're-do'. I double coat with clear every 2 years, and power buff with 2000 or 3000 grit compound in the intervening years (Im a reformed varnish-a-holic, so I cant help myself).

General:

•The colder the ambient temp, the HT components and the wood temp., the better the flow-out. I even keep ALL the components in the refrig. when Im looking for 'flow'. This is for 'horizontals' such as caprails and thin eyebrows, etc. If the wood is HOT, I wont apply HT to the 'horizontals' to avoid 'brushmarks, etc.'.

• Slightly LESS catalyst and more 'flow fluid' but *thin coats* on the VERTICALS - will allow a quicker 'kick' without sags and runs. 2 thin coats would equal to 1 normal coat.
If runs sags after all base coats applied, I wet-sand to 'just flat' then apply one more thin base coat coat --- Tom Fabula and I argue about 'my lay-up schedule' all the time ---- but I want a FLAT perfect job without any hints of runs or sags.
High learning curve on 'verticals' with HT to prevent runs/sags. Best to do the verticals on a very WARM, low humidity day, with LOTS of wind, using 'thin' coats, - single coats.
• To also prevent runs/sags on verticals - ONE COAT PER DAY. Allow coat to full cure before applying next coat .... if not full cured, the second coat will sometimes soften, etc. the first coat ... and enhance runs/sags on verticals. I mean long verticals, not the vertical edges of caprail, or eyebrows, etc.

• Additional help to prevent runs sags on verticals ..... LOW humidity, and LOTS of moving air across the surfaces - will accelerate the evaporation and quicken the 'kick' of the catalyst. Sometimes I'll put a FAN to the work area if not enough wind is blowing.

• MORE catalyst to allow better flow out on horizontal surfaces. For large area horizontal surfaces finish coat, I use PreVal self-contained sprayers and HT clear and with extra catalyst to enhance the flow-out.

• HEAVY wet coats on the horizontals, the thicker the better. For better fill and better flow.

Other hints - (applies to just about all similar coatings) apply when temp is rising and dewpoint is dropping. Certainly NOT at near the end of the day when just the opposite conditions are occurring .... unless you want a 'satin' finish.

For longevity vs. Sun/UV I lay down THREE *thick* base coats (5-6 'thin' coats on the verticals).... Tom Fabula still insists two are good enough, my HT applications usually last 10 yrs. before I have to start removal/restoration. For me, the heavier the base coat, the longer lasting vs. UV damage.

Of course, scarfs, plugs and any other joint that moisture can come up through will always be a problem for ANY coating system ---- the 'blacks'. Good idea to first use a penetrating epoxy on the 'joins' to help seal and prevent the moisture bleed.

That TENT you're under has to be well vented and air blowing through or the humidity may become much too HIGH and will then create a LONGER or much extended evaporation and 'kick' time. BIG fans might help, so may putting plastic tarps over the bare ground. Ive found that I cant use HT even for small stuff inside a garage ... the evap and kick time because of the high humidity is just waaaay too long. In a garage I have to only coat the horizontals, let cure, rotate the next portion to horizontal, etc. or sags become a problem .... probably due to the high humidity you get in enclosed spaces. Varnish is affected in the same way.

Other: If you used ANY chemical stripper to prepare the wood. You must be SURE that all of this is completely off-gassed out of the wood or you will get 'grain-print-through' all the way into the final coating !!!!!! Most burmese type teak like yours (and mine) seems to absorb MEK, etc. into the soft grain and not the the harder dry season grain. If you used any stripper, contact Tom Fabula to discuss the best method of MEK, etc. EXTRACTION from the wood. Sometimes it take MONTHS for the stripper carriers to completely off-gas and not 'print-through' into the surface coating .... you wont see the print-through immediately as it can sometimes take months (after coating) to show up. No print-through will occur if you didnt use a chemical stripper.

mrybas 07-12-2010 09:19 PM

Rich- Wow, thats an impressive amount of advice. I'm also in PA (just north of Philly)....can I bribe you and your varnish brush to help with a few cold ones:) ? I do have a large fan (36'') at one end of the greenhouse with vents at the other end. It pulls quite a bit of air through. Like you suggested, I have always heard to varnish early on low humidity mornings. However, the teak seems to be gassing and creating bubbles as the temp rises during the day. Would it make sense to coat after the "heat" of the day, as the wood contracts and less likely to create bubbles?

DwayneSpeer 07-12-2010 09:30 PM

deck
 
Beautiful boat and teak carving work.

I know you aren't going to finish the deck, right?

mrybas 07-12-2010 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwayneSpeer (Post 621903)
Beautiful boat and teak carving work.

I know you aren't going to finish the deck, right?

It sure is nice to look at, but a lot of work! No, the deck is going natural (untreated).

cormeum 07-12-2010 09:35 PM

I tried Bristol Finish (similar 2 part as HT) and went back to Epifanes.

RichH 07-12-2010 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrybas (Post 621896)
Rich- Wow, thats an impressive amount of advice. I'm also in PA (just north of Philly)....can I bribe you and your varnish brush to help with a few cold ones:) ? I do have a large fan (36'') at one end of the greenhouse with vents at the other end. It pulls quite a bit of air through. Like you suggested, I have always heard to varnish early on low humidity mornings. However, the teak seems to be gassing and creating bubbles as the temp rises during the day. Would it make sense to coat after the "heat" of the day, as the wood contracts and less likely to create bubbles?

Like most first applied coatings HT will 'bubble up' when the wood gets hot. Best to do the 'spit' coat on a cool day; otherwise, wait until the coat is starting to 'kick' then just knock the bubbles down with a quick light swipe of a finger. HT if applied thick later on will fill those 'craters' - promise. You really dont have to be FUSSY with HT as you do with varnish as if applied thick will have great fill and leveling capabilities. You really dont have to worry about gloss die-back on the base coats so applying on the downside of the hot part of the day may help ..... but dont forget that the humidity rises then so the verticals may start sagging/running if the 'kick' time is greatly extended.

The only real problems with HT are erroneously putting on the base coats too thin and the potential to sag/run on the verticals. The worst potential problem is a rapidly rising very high humidity will almost totally stop the cure; in that rare occurance dont touch the coating but WAIT allow to start to cure, then 'slop' on another coat as soon as the humidity goes back down ... will aid in the curing/'kicking' of the 'bad' coat. This is a very rare occurrence but can happen.

Be aware that it may take a few weeks for HT to 'fade' into a proper clear amber hue .... it may initially look somewhat like 'butterscotch' (or worse, may look like butt-ugly cetol) for the first few weeks, but will quickly fade to a proper oil based varnish look.

As like a primo varnish job, you can after a month or two of curing, flat sand with 2000 or 3000 grit W&D and then either (bare hand) hand-rub with rottenstone & water or wet-sand and POWER BUFF (w/foam knobby pad) with 3M finese-it, then 3M Perfect-it .... and will then make a brand new Hinckley blush with envy. The heat from hand-rubbing, etc. is what produces that dazzling iridescent GLOW under varnish and will remove almost all the 'dust, etc. imperfections'.

Caution: dont sand down the 'base coat' unless *absolutely* necessary ... its the UV filters in the base coat that allows HT to last for 10-12+ years and you want LOTS of intact UV filter to prolong the life of the coating system.

Gang finishing .... nah, do it yourself until you experience and find the learning curve. HT is a FAST finish to apply. Once you get the 'hang', you'll be doing wet-on-wet in no time .... with the exception of the damn verticals and thats a problem with varnish too.

RichH 07-12-2010 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrybas (Post 621906)
It sure is nice to look at, but a lot of work! No, the deck is going natural (untreated).

At now $40 a board ft. for teak, You might want to look at a good sealer.
I use a mix of 1/3 Semco goldtone, 1/3 Teak Wonder and 1/3 Thompsons waterseal --- doesnt make the deck slippery when wet. Two coats will last 6 months if you keep the green water off the deck. Only problem with sealers is that they eventually transfer to the soles of your deck shoes and makes them slippery. Occasional sand paper fixes the shoes.

mrybas 07-26-2010 06:28 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Well I thought today would was "The Day" to start laying Honey Teak on all of the teak attached to the boat. We (4 guys all with some experience and one who is a woodworker for a living) started laying on Honey at a little before 8 AM. It was around 70 deg when we began laying on Honey and the forecast called for a high in the mid 80's with low humidity (a cool day compared to the recent weather). It took about 40 mins to make a lap around the boat working in teams of two (one on deck, one on scaffolding x port/starboard). By the time we started to lay on the second coat (wet on wet, 40 mins after the first coat) a few bubbles started to show up. Applying the second coat knocked down the first coat bubbles.....but by the time the second coat was finished bubbles started to really show up:puke . We knocked all of these bubbles down by finger-tip coated in Flow Fluid (HT thinner), trying to work the material down into the open pores. However, the bubbles just kept coming up. Now I have literally thousands of bubbles! We decided to call it quits and let the HT cure, sand the bubbles off, and try again another day. I have the feeling that we're going to be fighting bubbles all over again on the next coat. Any thoughts????

Rich H- If I understand you correctly, less catalyst will make the batch kick faster? So, you recommend less catalyst for verticals, which will speed up the 'kick"?


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