Starter just 'clicks' until I bang on it

[Pub911]

Then it engages. I've had it off once already and took apart the part that is spring loaded (a bendix?) and burnished clean all copper looking parts. It worked great for about a month, now the symptom is back again.

The engine is a Universal M4-30 and the starter is part number 302494. A non-oem replacement is about $350. A non-marine 'discount' replacement is $104.

What should I do?

I'm thinking I'll buy the cheapo one just to get myself going and then take the original to a professional rebuilder. Swap them when rebuild is done, and keep the cheapo as a spare.

Anyone have a better suggestion?

Thank you!

[sailpower]

I saw this on another site recently. Starters and altenators.

L&A Cruiser's Forum • View topic - Source for Diesel Starters

[tdw]

Sounds like dodgey solenoid. Clean or replace. Or keep that lump of wood handy.

Me I like your idea of getting a non marine then using it as spare after reconditioning the marine. Provided you keep the spare well wrapped up if stored on board then its a good plan.

You can often tell if its the solenoid by turning on your lights (deck or mast head would be good) and turning the key. If the lights dim it is probably the solenoid.

Oh yes....your battery is good isn't it ? Try decompressing the engine then turning the key. If the engine spins then its probably just a dud battery but I'm thinking you would have checked this already. Flattish battery is the most common cause of this problem.

I did a search to see if I could find any other possibilities and found this...I though it was worth repeating...

"Sounds like the Whitworth Click Clack Bobbins to me. Get your engine conbobulated with a Ferkins Half Wankle Fudgewokka. That'll redangle those bobbins and should also sort out any potential side shooby.
Tell that to the garage word for word, wink and tell them 'Big Vern' sent you. That should garner a favourable response"

[poopdeckpappy]

I got a old Perk, I also have all original schematics, my perk was and still is equiped with Delco-Remey and can be had at any auto parts house; If you think about it, most boat engine rms are far better protected from the environment then a land vehicle is with it's engine compartment exposed water, extreme heat, road salts and whatever else you can think of.

[JimsCAL]

The diesel mfrs buy the starters from others. Yanmar seems to use Hitachi and Universal seems to use Nippondensa. If you buy one of these from someone other than the engine supplier you are getting the same part, just not paying for the marine markup, stocking fee, etc.

[Pub911]

Thanks everyone.

Just to answer a few questions:
Yes, the batter(ies) are good. I actually manually force 2 additional batts in the house bank to the cause and have the same 'click'.

The lights do dim as I do this, so I'm guessing I'm throwing a lot of juice at the unit.

Regarding the 'solenoid'...
On my starter assembly, there are 2 cylindrical devices clustered together. The 'solenoid' must be the smaller diameter one, and the starter motor is the other one, with the gear on one end. When I disassembled the solenoid I found a long spring, a copper washer, a tube that the spring rides in, and a pair of copper contacts. I used fine sandpaper to shine anything that looked like it might need to be cleaned, but didn't do anything else.

Based on this amature description, is there more I could do to avoid a rebuild expense?

Thank you again.

[danjarch]

See if you can buy just a new solenoid. But to second something already said, I would buy the automotive one, then think about buying a second automotive one for a back up. Starter motors are usually on the bottom of the car and constantly washed with road salt and every other nasty that exists. But you might also check that your negative wires are clean because that often a cause for not getting enough juice to the starter.

[tdw]

Pub,

I getting out of my depth here but are we sure that those copper contacts didn't need to be correctly spaced after cleaning, not just reassembled ?

I'm thinking setting the gap in the distributor cap of a pre electronic era motor. Also spark plugs in the days when such things were cleaned up, gap reset and actually re used.

If my dad was still alive I'd check with him. Sadly all I inherited from him was a bit of theoretical knowledge, some really cool tools and none of the practical can do. Every time I tried to service my car myself I had to get him to come over and sort out the mess.

[Omatako]

Get a new solenoid - that's the problem and if you have gone as far as your description above, installing it is a cake-walk.

If you're going to replace your starter I would advise an automotive version at half the price - I don't believe there is a difference. I got one directly from a Hitachi dealer for my boat and it is exactly the same as the double-the-price Yanmar version.

[eherlihy]

Originally Posted by Pub911

Regarding the 'solenoid'...
On my starter assembly, there are 2 cylindrical devices clustered together. The 'solenoid' must be the smaller diameter one, and the starter motor is the other one, with the gear on one end. When I disassembled the solenoid I found a long spring, a copper washer, a tube that the spring rides in, and a pair of copper contacts. I used fine sandpaper to shine anything that looked like it might need to be cleaned, but didn't do anything else.

Based on this amature description, is there more I could do to avoid a rebuild expense?

Yes, the smaller cylinder is the solenoid. It is, in essence, an electro magnet that pulls/pushes the gear from the starter motor to engage with the flywheel. When the gear is engaged with the flywheel, it also acts as a switch (that copper washer, and those two contacts are the switch) to supply 12VDC at high amperage to the starter motor. When the starter motor gets the juice, it spins the gear, which turns the flywheel, and voilla... the engine starts. The spring is the "Bendix" spring which retracts the gear from the flywheel, and breaks the connection of the contacts when you disengage the starter motor.

The "click" is the electro magnet overcoming the spring to engage the gear with the flywheel. As the solenoid gets old, the electro magnet looses its ability to overcome the push of the spring. When you bang on the solenoid with a piece of wood, you are jarring the gear assembly enough to engage. This will not work for long, as the heat generated in the windings of the electromagnet will cause this problem to get worse quickly. If possible, replace it ASAP.

Other things to check are that the contacts to the starter motor are clean and FULLY connecting and able to deliver full power to the motor. The space between You should also look carefully at the wire from the battery to the solenoid. Corrosion or a loose connection anywhere on this wire will prevent the starter motor from getting all the juice that it needs.

Good luck!