Cored deck soft spot repair - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-04-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
This, like most other "quick-fix" methods generally results in a pretty lousy repair. Epoxy does not adhere to wet core materials as a general rule and this type of repair doesn't really dry the core out. In most cases, the water has taken months to penetrate the balsa core, and unless the core has disintegrated almost completely, it will take a long time for it to yield up the water it has taken so long to absorb.

Letting the epoxy saturate the area in this method will make replacing the core material when you do a proper repair job much more difficult. If you're going to fix this, please do it the right way and remove one side of the laminate, clear out the wet core material and then replace it and then glass in a new skin to replace what you removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
I have some wet spots on my 33 Morgan's deck near the mast boot. The boot is completely sealed, but nonetheless there are wet spots. I talked with a fiberglass repair guy at the marina who said he can fix the problem by drilling a few holes in the top of the cabin, then attaching a Hi-Vac to the lowest hole and over a period of a few days, draw the water from the balsa core. He then pours acetone into the highest hole while the Hi-Vac is still running and draws it through the core to finish the drying process. Next, he pours a very slow drying Epoxy into the highest hole, again while the Hi-Vac is still running. When the Epoxy resin reaches the Hi-Vac he shuts it down, waits about 4 days, then seals the fares the openings. He said the process essentially solidifies that portion of the core that was previously wet, adheres it tightly to the surrounding fiberglass, and does not add a significant amount of weight. No, it's not as good as new, but if everything goes well it should last about 20 years, which is longer than I'll probably be on Planet Earth.

Good luck, and keep us posted on how the repairs progress,

Gary
smurphny likes this.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 03-04-2011
travlineasy's Avatar
Morgan 33 O.I. Perryville
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,607
Thanks: 3
Thanked 81 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
travlineasy will become famous soon enough
I'll let you know if it works! I'll also let you know if it does not work. I was told that using the Hi-Vac system that 99-percent of the moisture will be removed, but it's not something that takes a few hours--it takes days of constant high-vacuum suctioning before the acetone is injected for the completion of the drying process. At today's labor prices, the cost of replacing the core and then re-doing the deck surfaces would likely be higher than the cost of the boat. Hey, if I get another 10 years out of this old tub, and I don't loose too many of my body parts in the next decade, I'll be more than happy with the repair. A decade from now both me and the boat will be ready for the scrap yard.

Cheers,

Gary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 03-04-2011
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,527
Thanks: 13
Thanked 146 Times in 112 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
I'll let you know if it works! I'll also let you know if it does not work. I was told that using the Hi-Vac system that 99-percent of the moisture will be removed, but it's not something that takes a few hours--it takes days of constant high-vacuum suctioning before the acetone is injected for the completion of the drying process. At today's labor prices, the cost of replacing the core and then re-doing the deck surfaces would likely be higher than the cost of the boat. Hey, if I get another 10 years out of this old tub, and I don't loose too many of my body parts in the next decade, I'll be more than happy with the repair. A decade from now both me and the boat will be ready for the scrap yard.

Cheers,

Gary
Gary,

PLEASE keep in mind that acetone can SOFTEN and can potentially DESTROY any bonding you have left between the balsa and the glass skins. I have seen the results of both drill & fill and vacuum dried/filled decks. I can assure you it is a band-aid at best. If the boat was hand laid the resin usually just rides the kerfs but the acetone has already softened the bond so you really get...well .. a high tech solution that really solves little... You can almost always excavate and do it right in less time. You still have to fix all your drill holes anyway so paint or gelcoat are going to happen either way. I often wonder if any of these yards charging an arm & leg for these "solutions" ever have a cut away section of deck they can show a customer? I know why they don't...
StormBay likes this.
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 03-04-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
And setting up this vacuum system, as well as using the acetone, over the course of days is going to be less expensive? Cutting off the old skin, scraping out the bad balsa core material, and then re-coring it is probably simpler and faster than trying to dry the existing core, and certainly more likely to result in a sound repair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
I'll let you know if it works! I'll also let you know if it does not work. I was told that using the Hi-Vac system that 99-percent of the moisture will be removed, but it's not something that takes a few hours--it takes days of constant high-vacuum suctioning before the acetone is injected for the completion of the drying process. At today's labor prices, the cost of replacing the core and then re-doing the deck surfaces would likely be higher than the cost of the boat. Hey, if I get another 10 years out of this old tub, and I don't loose too many of my body parts in the next decade, I'll be more than happy with the repair. A decade from now both me and the boat will be ready for the scrap yard.

Cheers,

Gary
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 03-04-2011
travlineasy's Avatar
Morgan 33 O.I. Perryville
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,607
Thanks: 3
Thanked 81 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
travlineasy will become famous soon enough
The two estimates for re-coring the wet areas were both in excess of $15,000. The Band-Aid approach will be about $1,900. Labor charges alone averaged $75 to $100 per hour. Some fiberglass guys are charging as much as $130 an hour in the upper Chesapeake Bay area. I would hate to think what the labor charges would be in Annapolis.

BTW: I have seen wet transoms in power boats dried out using the Hi-Vac technique with excellent results. Of course, in the case of a deck you are dealing with a nearly horizontal surface, while the transom is nearly vertical so drainage may be more effective with transom repairs. I know of at least one instance of transom repair that has held up for at least 12 years. It was done on a 210 Proline powered with a 150-HP Mercury outboard that is transom mounted. Obviously, I haven't seen a cutaway section of decking or transom that has been repaired using this technique so I couldn't tell you anything about the bonding. If anyone has some photos and documentation of this I would really appreciate it if they were posted.

Cheers,

Gary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 03-04-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
TravelinEasy—

Doing a core repair like what you describe isn't rocket science and doesn't require a whole lot in the way of esoteric tools or knowledge.

Depending on the size of the area, your skill at fiberglass repair, and such, you could probably do this for less than $500 or so in materials in a weekend. Several of the boating magazines have had articles regarding this exact subject in the past five years.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 03-04-2011
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 3,659
Thanks: 124
Thanked 72 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
West describes the procedure that Dog and Maine are strongly suggesting here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 03-04-2011
johnnyandjebus's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 424
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
johnnyandjebus is on a distinguished road
I will be dealing with this type of repair in the coming weeks so I have an interest in this thread. The repair solution SD and maine are proposing makes sense in my circumstance with one small but important problem, the cosmetic finish of the deck after the repair. I have minor water damage(as far as I can tell) around one of my stanchion bases and could "fix" the problem by drilling holes thru the non-skid, and then re-paint the non-skid(currently non-diamond finish). If I cut thru the deck to repair/replace the core as suggested I will have to re-gelcoat.
So, does anyone have any advice or can you point me to a resource that can provide info on how to apply gelcoat? I understand that I will not get a perfect colour match but I am hoping for something close.

Any thoughts?

John
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 03-05-2011
Wingnut247's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Earth
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Wingnut247 is on a distinguished road
Thank you sir... may I have another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCatalina310 View Post
Congrats on the recent purchase. Good luck with her.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCatalina310 View Post
If it was me, here is what I would do:

1) The water coming into the deck is the first problem... I would suggest you go to Maine Sail's site and searching these forums for details on how to do this.
GREAT site link. Looks like the way to go. I have rebedded a small sailboat before... while I feel like I did a good job, I see now that I could have done a little better. (Flare/counter sink) Live and learn... I will try this technique at the end of summer on the rest of the boat (that is not leaking yet) as well as the repair to the current problem spot.

Very helpful thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCatalina310 View Post
2) If you core damage around the deck hardware, you should fix this before you re-bed the hardware...
Yes... otherwise I'd seal in the moisture and the problem would get worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCatalina310 View Post
3) Then, if the deck damage is bad enough, look at the epoxy injection or core replacement.
Yeah. With it being a small area (and not under the mast or vital chain plate), I think I will try the epoxy injection first (time and money being a factor). If the problem comes back... I will re-core.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCatalina310 View Post
Hope this helps.
JK
Yes Thanks.


Now two new questions...

1). How fast do you think this problem will spread?

2). The weather is crappy for the next couple months. Temperature in the 30's to low 40's and rain right now. What can/should I do to prevent more damage with "quick" damage control fix?

Thanks

-Wingnut247

Last edited by Wingnut247; 03-05-2011 at 01:12 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 03-05-2011
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 3,659
Thanks: 124
Thanked 72 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyandjebus View Post
I will be dealing with this type of repair in the coming weeks so I have an interest in this thread. The repair solution SD and maine are proposing makes sense in my circumstance with one small but important problem, the cosmetic finish of the deck after the repair. I have minor water damage(as far as I can tell) around one of my stanchion bases and could "fix" the problem by drilling holes thru the non-skid, and then re-paint the non-skid(currently non-diamond finish). If I cut thru the deck to repair/replace the core as suggested I will have to re-gelcoat.
So, does anyone have any advice or can you point me to a resource that can provide info on how to apply gelcoat? I understand that I will not get a perfect colour match but I am hoping for something close.

Any thoughts?
Just this:
WEST SYSTEM | Projects | Fiberglass Boat Repair and Restoration - Repair non-skid and get professional results

And MAS Epoxies sells FlexMold - which provides the manufacturer non-skid pattern.

(follow the links)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Soft Deck repair Balage Gear & Maintenance 8 04-26-2010 04:49 PM
Deck Washdown Systems Sue & Larry Cruising Articles 0 02-23-2004 08:00 PM
Techniques for Removing Teak Decks Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 11-24-2003 08:00 PM
Mounting Deck Hardware Tom Wood Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 06-25-2002 09:00 PM
How to Paint Your Own Deck Don Casey Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 02-04-2002 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.