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halyard sizes????

Hello everyone . this is my first post, been lurking in the shadows for a year or so and have just bought a 32 ft Endeavour sloop.....the old gal is in pretty good shape. ( meaning her ills are repairable ) .and my reason for needing a little help now....i need the sizes of all the rigging . every line on the boat is junk ..and i am not near the boat . so i want to order the materials before i travel down to the boat ,and the lines will be waiting to be picked up...
i need both halyards...main and jib ...but dont know the diameters? the sheets are missing for the jib.... half inch ? or bigger?
the line in the traveler is rotted .....maybe it was half inch also?.....as for out haul ...reefing lines and cunningham .....all missing...so i have no idea.
dock lines also , again is half inch big enough?

I want to run everything to the cockpit to single hand setup........winches are still on the mast ... i want to relocate them to cabin roof.....she does have a dodger to fit in also it was totally removed or never installed for some reason.....do the winches need to be mounted on a wood block ? if so what is normally used ? . if it is teak ...where do i look for that ?. the boat is in st pete fl. ..next I will need a rigger for stay replacement ......i have read about " knothead " ? is this the right guy and right area to find him?

thanks for your help.... Ron
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post #2 of 14 Old 10-05-2010
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I dont think your question can really be answered as so much would depend on what is there now and what sizes can fit

Most haylards get the needed fitting on one end and a small eye on the other to install it making the needed lenth very inportant

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post #3 of 14 Old 10-05-2010
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Ron,
It depends on a couple of things: the type of line you want, and the sizes of rope clutches and/or self tailing winches. With very high tech line, you could go as small as 5/16th (samson Validator II or similar)... more typically 3/8" (samson warpspeed), and then maybe 7/16ths. The traveller line.. I can't imagine it ever needing 1/2" in any scenario for a 32' boat. And remember, the lines have to fit the sheeves at the mast head. It's probably a good time to inspect and perhaps replace them as well. If you emailed mauri pro sailing or a local rigger, they could give you appropriate suggestions and sizes for your budget and intended use.

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On a boat the size of yours, you can probably get away with 3/8 or 7/16" lines for the halyards. You could go as small as 5/16" if you're going with a high-tech core line, like a spectra or dyneema cored line, but it would be harder on your hands than a thicker line. 3/8" is about the smallest you can go comfortably.

You will probably want at least three halyards setup—the mainsail, the jib or genoa and the topping lift. In many cases, you'll also have a spinnaker halyard as well. As for lengths... it depends on the mast height. Generally, halyards are roughly twice the mast height, or a bit more if you're leading them aft to the cockpit.

You'll want jib sheets, but they'll depend on the size headsail you have. The larger the sail, the longer the sheets need to be. So, saying what size sails you have aboard her is a good idea. Jib sheets run from about 1.5 times the boat's LOA to about twice the boat's LOA for a really large genny.

7/16 or 1/2" lines might be good for these. Of course, it does depend partially on what winches you have—since, if they're self-tailing, you may need to stick with particular line diameters.

The main sheet will depend on whether you have a 4:1 or a 6:1 purchase mainsheet, the boom length, and whether the mainsheet is an end-boom or mid-boom setup. The thickness also depends on the purchase, sheave size, etc—but for your boat 7/16-9/16" is about right.

As a rough rule of thumb:
  • 4:1 end-boom mainsheet you'll want a line 5.6 times the boom length;
  • 6:1 end-boom mainsheet you'll want a line 8.4 times the boom length;
  • 4:1 mid-boom mainsheet you'll want a line 4.3 times the boom length;
  • 6:1 mid-boom mainsheet you'll want a line 5.7 times the boom length.

The outhaul, cunningham, and reefing lines were probably 3/8" or so.

The traveler lines were probably NOT 1/2". That's way too large for traveler control lines on a 32' boat. More likely they were 5/16" or 3/8".

As for running the lines aft to the cockpit, that's a fairly involved project, since you need to add turning blocks to the mast base or cabintop, as well as deck organizers and line clutches, in addition to moving the winches. I'd point out that the mast winches may be a bit small when you are dealing with lines lead aft to the cockpit, since there will be more friction in the system than there was at the mast, and going up a couple winch sizes might be wise and even necessary.

Before doing any of this, I would highly recommend you inspect the sheaves (the pulleys) in the blocks and masthead truck to see what shape they're in. If they're damaged, you can ruin new rigging pretty quickly.

As for what kind of line to use... you really don't need anything more than a polyester double braid. However, using a low-stretch, spectra/dyneema core line for certain lines—like the outhaul, halyards and cunningham—can improve control over sail shape, since the lines stretch very little. They can also reduce weight aloft, since spectra/dyneema cored lines are lighter than comparable diameter polyester double braids and strong enough so you can often drop a line size without sacrificing strength, and reduce windage aloft as well.

CajunRope.com and RWRope.com are two excellent vendors that are fairly knowledgeable and have fairly good prices.

Another way to replace your standing rigging, especially if you're taking the mast down, is to take the rigging off and send it to someplace like Riggingonly.com. They can make up replacement rigging for you and ship it back. I would recommend going with swaged upper terminals and mechanical lower terminals, preferring Hayn HiMod fittings over Norseman or StaLok, since, IMHO they're better and usually less money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twisted23 View Post
Hello everyone . this is my first post, been lurking in the shadows for a year or so and have just bought a 32 ft Endeavour sloop.....the old gal is in pretty good shape. ( meaning her ills are repairable ) .and my reason for needing a little help now....i need the sizes of all the rigging . every line on the boat is junk ..and i am not near the boat . so i want to order the materials before i travel down to the boat ,and the lines will be waiting to be picked up...
i need both halyards...main and jib ...but dont know the diameters? the sheets are missing for the jib.... half inch ? or bigger?
the line in the traveler is rotted .....maybe it was half inch also?.....as for out haul ...reefing lines and cunningham .....all missing...so i have no idea.
dock lines also , again is half inch big enough?

I want to run everything to the cockpit to single hand setup........winches are still on the mast ... i want to relocate them to cabin roof.....she does have a dodger to fit in also it was totally removed or never installed for some reason.....do the winches need to be mounted on a wood block ? if so what is normally used ? . if it is teak ...where do i look for that ?. the boat is in st pete fl. ..next I will need a rigger for stay replacement ......i have read about " knothead " ? is this the right guy and right area to find him?

thanks for your help.... Ron

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Last edited by sailingdog; 10-05-2010 at 02:44 PM.
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post #5 of 14 Old 10-05-2010
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SD, I'm curious, why not swaged terminals at the lower end?
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well i had plan to use the new england sta set or sta set x...in what ever the origional size was that came on the boat new....nothing fancy , just getting her up and running......my 23 ft uses the same line in 3/8 ...so i thought the bigger line would be needed.....the winches are still on the mast ....nothing added since she was new......no self tailers ...no line clutches ....nadda...the sailnet store use to have that information ....line charts and rigging wire charts ....but i cant find them now...they seem to have been deleted....thaks again ron
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ive had really good luck with these guys. IIRC i used 3/8 the halyards. Also, to string them up (if the new lines look comparable to the old--so they will run through the sheaves), i put new/old butt to butt, used a opened paperclip and some tape and you can pull the new ones up easy peasy.

dont overload on the tape, or you (like me) will have to go up the mast anyway to get the jammed tape monster out of the sheave.

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oh, and the super duper latest and greatest line very well may be able to take more stress than your boat....
knothead will help you or steer you in the right direction...
for docklines i went here:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordo View Post
SD, I'm curious, why not swaged terminals at the lower end?
Three reasons.

First, swaged fittings at the lower end seem to suffer from crevice corrosion more readily than mechanical fittings. This is likely due to the fact that swaged fittings are essentially dead-end cups that collect salt water...which doesn't really happen to the upper terminals as much. They're facing the wrong way to collect much, and are generally not exposed to saltwater as frequently.

Second, mechanical fittings allow you to adjust the length of the rigging a bit while you're fitting it, where if you got both ends swaged, you'd be SOL if the rigging was a bit long.

Third, if you have to jury rig repairs, it is far easier to jury rig things with mechanical fittings, than it is with swaged fittings—since you can put on or remove mechanical terminals with ordinary hand tools relatively easily.

Also, if you're going cruising longer distances, I'd recommend carrying a couple spare mechanical fittings and a length of wire rope the same size as your shrouds and forestay, as long as each. Then, if you have a problem, you can tie off the mast using a halyard temporarily and then replace the broken or damage shroud/forestay.

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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 10-05-2010 at 02:54 PM.
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post #9 of 14 Old 10-05-2010
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if your outhaul, or anyother system is atypical, i would either diagram the setup or take pics before removing the old line to give yourself a guide to run the new. i dunno if the po did any 'custom mods'

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you can find some good diagrams here:
ENDEAVOUR 32 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com

they have other models listed as well, on my 30' iirc i used about 80-90 for jib sheets, in one piece to attach to rolling furler back to cockpit. i think ive got two matching sets of rope clutches...schaffer and something else if you are interested, i thought i was going to need them, but dont think i will.

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