Water in rudder - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 10-14-2010
Barquito's Avatar
Barquito
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,933
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Barquito is on a distinguished road
Water in rudder

I have a keel attached rudder that has a water inside. I have seen that others just drill a 1/4" hole and drain. How do I know how low to make the hole? I imagine the water gets in around the rudder shaft. Any suggestions on how to stop this leakage? or just drill out the hole every fall?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 10-14-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
You should fix the problem. Water ingress into the rudder will lead to crevice corrosion of the rudder stock and webbing that supports the rudder if it is stainless steel. It will lead to corrosion of an aluminum rudder stock and webbing as well. Also, if you don't get all the water out of the rudder, the freezing damage caused by the water expanding as it freezes can destroy the rudder.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 10-14-2010
Barquito's Avatar
Barquito
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,933
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Barquito is on a distinguished road
Seems like it would be difficult to keep the rudder stock entry tight. Consider the fact that boats here experience about a 130 degree difference it temp from summer to winter (sometimes close to that daily )

To tell the truth, I didn't get a chance to really look at the construction of the top of the rudder b/f launching this new-to-me boat. Think just dribbling some thickened epoxy into the top (after drying the inside) would work?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 10-14-2010
Bene505's Avatar
Glad I found Sailnet
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,578
Thanks: 5
Thanked 39 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Bene505 will become famous soon enough Bene505 will become famous soon enough
Drill at the lowest point to see how bad things are. From what I understand, most rudders have some water in them.

I know someone who drills every year and gets about 4 ounces of water. Um, "he" tried resealing the top of the rudder with West Systems epoxy, still had water the next year.

It means you need to get your boat on the hard before freezing temperatures hit, and get the rudder drilled. (I suppose it's possible to curtain-off the rudder and heat it somehow until the water drains out.)

I saw a boat in Maine (in January) that I liked enough to hire a surveyor (George Gallup, great guy) to survey. By the time we got there to do the survey a few weeks later, the rudder looked like burst popcorn.

Regards,
Brad
__________________
.
.
Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.
.
The best minds discuss sailing.
.

Last edited by Bene505; 10-14-2010 at 01:33 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 10-14-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Essex
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Yerffoeg is on a distinguished road
My rudder always collects water after a season. I have left a hole in it to drain the water out when I take the boat out of the water. If the rudder tangs are made of high quality stainless there should not be a problem. My attempts at stopping water ingress in the past using epoxy all failed.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 10-14-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Actually, even the highest quality stainless suffers from crevice corrosion when submersed in stagnant water, especially salt water, inside a rudder for long periods of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yerffoeg View Post
My rudder always collects water after a season. I have left a hole in it to drain the water out when I take the boat out of the water. If the rudder tangs are made of high quality stainless there should not be a problem. My attempts at stopping water ingress in the past using epoxy all failed.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 10-14-2010
Barquito's Avatar
Barquito
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,933
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Barquito is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Actually, even the highest quality stainless suffers from crevice corrosion when submersed in stagnant water, especially salt water, inside a rudder for long periods of time.
Would the SS hardware on the inside be more toward the top of the rudder, such that if you only had a small amound of water there would still be an air space toward the top?

Others have claimed that this is why rudders are over-engineered.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 10-14-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
On most rudders, the rudder stock and web/tangs don't extend the full height of the rudder. Again, this will vary depending on the design of the rudder. A skeg-hung rudder may have a shorter stock than a spade rudder, which is freestanding.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 10-14-2010
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,555
Thanks: 2
Thanked 82 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
There's no genteel way to really say this, but if you have ANY water in the rudder, you WILL HAVE RUDDER FAILURE. The only question is when it will fail, and how inconvenient or dangerous that may be for you.

Yes, sealing the rudder shaft isn't easy. Yes, even a casual bump at low tide can make a hairline crack that lets water in. Yes, opening a rudder up and rebuilding it is damned expensive and inconvenient.

But once water gets inside the rudder, it becomes stagnant water with zero oxygen content, and that's the perfect mechanism to cause the stainless rudder stock to fail. Unless the iron armature or frame in the rudder fails first.

You can try to drain it (takes a long time, even with multiple holes and a heat source) and then reseal it, and if you are lucky you will reseal it and the internal damage will not be enough to cause a failure. But really, there's no way to tell how safe the rudder is, or when it is going to fail. Could be this year, or 15 years from now. You're gambling once you know it has water in it.

Which is perfectly fine--as long as you KNOW that you are gambling, and what the stakes may be.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 10-15-2010
Barquito's Avatar
Barquito
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,933
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Barquito is on a distinguished road
Quote:
There's no genteel way to really say this, but if you have ANY water in the rudder, you WILL HAVE RUDDER FAILURE. The only question is when it will fail, and how inconvenient or dangerous that may be for you.
This is what confuses me about this problem. It seems to me that what you say is exactly what would happen. I can't imagine any steel (SS or otherwise) lasting long being in and out of stagnent water 24/7 for years. HOWEVER, as I look into this, it seems that a lot of boats have this problem. Some say even that for some kinds of boats, all of them have this problem. So, I am suprised there are not more rudder failures.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fresh Water cooling water dirty brown sailak Gear & Maintenance 17 07-31-2009 11:52 PM
Water comming up through the rudder post egle01 Gear & Maintenance 3 06-23-2008 07:23 PM
Water in the rudder - now what? pmoyer Gear & Maintenance 11 12-30-2007 04:49 PM
Refrigeration -Using the water tank as a cooling water source HenryRusty Gear & Maintenance 7 03-29-2007 12:14 AM
MD3B Volvo-Penta sea water to fresh water conversion slosharron Gear & Maintenance 20 06-17-2003 09:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:02 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.