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  #11  
Old 11-26-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloke View Post
ha! :-)
I used to think that too, was taught it fact.
Experience has proven my teachers to be wrong in so many things. - like the idea that the 300 series is all non magnetic... try it, you'll be surprised too.

Like I said, SS is a big subject - but as general rule 316 is the most corosion resistant and the only one I would consider "Marine grade" (even though it will still rust - they all will).

"Good marine hardware made of 304"?
Just last week I had to throw away my boarding ladder - 304 and rusted out from the inside - Couldn't buy one in 316, so had to build one.

"If I knew what I was talking about"... cheap shot - You got shares in a chandlery or something?
Bloke,

OK, so what you're really asking for is for others to validate and agree with your opinions -- you could have saved a lot of time if you had just labeled your thread that way to start with.

BTW -- my guess is that your "304" ladder either wasn't 304 or that it had other issues going on inside it.
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Old 11-26-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
You'd be a lot more credible if you knew what you were talking about. A lot of good marine hardware is made of 304 grade stainless steel, which is non-magnetic. The cheaper martenistic grades of stainless steel are magnetic, but the 300 series of austenitic stainless steels are not.
You are correct, in general 300 series is not magnetic. However, when it is cold formed (like on a screw machine) it becomes magnetic. So, fasteners will be magnetic. Your answer seems like it came from Wikipedia. If it did you need to be careful. No one verifies if the information is correct.

I am curious what information you are referring to comparing strengths of 304 and 316. The numbers for tensile strength and 0.2% yield strength are:

304 85 ksi tensile and 35 ksi yield
316 85 ksi tensile and 35 ksi yield

And in case you are confusing the low carbon varients:
304L 80 ksi tensile and 30 ksi yield
316L 78 ksi tensile and 30 ksi yield
in this case there is a 2.5% difference in tensile strength which is well within any reasonable safety factor.

I agree with your statement "You would be more credible if you knew what you are talking about".

If you want to verify my numbers they came from the Machinery's Handbook, 25th edition on page 440.
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Last edited by nickmerc; 08-18-2011 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 11-27-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorFin View Post
Bloke,

OK, so what you're really asking for is for others to validate and agree with your opinions -- you could have saved a lot of time if you had just labeled your thread that way to start with.

BTW -- my guess is that your "304" ladder either wasn't 304 or that it had other issues going on inside it.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought this thread was because someone asked for advice on the use of 304 versus 316 in a marine environment, I must be right off topic.

I was just offering a little bit of advice on that specific subject, based on 21 years of real world experience messing with old boats and fabricating stainless.
My opinions are based mostly on the 304 failures that I have personally witnessed - that does not mean that 304 will always fail but I have seen it fail too often to accept it when there is a better option available in 316.

If there is credible evidence to dispute my humble opinion, I would like to hear it.

Baggging the author is not what I would call credible evidence, that is just argementative tactic. This is supposed to be a discussion not an argument...


I am currently working on an 9 year old Hunter 380 which has the same rust problem with its boarding ladder - I suspect 304 because it holds a strong magnet and because is very rusty and because it is an American built production boat.
Compare that to the 30 year old main boarding ladder on my boat which is I believe 316. The indicators for that, are: no rust, will not hold a magnet (except on the welds) and is is a New Zealand built custom.
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Old 11-27-2010
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if you are concerned with rust and corrosion just spend the money and go straight for monel or inconel expensive hard to weld but lasts forever if not inside a us navy nuc reactor. just my 2 cents worth
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Old 11-28-2010
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Well we were talking about nuts and bolts used above the waterline

BUT i buy all my work stainless with certifications and the stuff without is a LOT cheaper most likely with good reason and there there is Chinese material
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Old 06-08-2012
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Re: 18-8/304/316/... SS fasteners?

Funny, I came across this posting and know it is old, but figure I would help out anyone looking for good strong fasteners that will last forever. One catch, they usually don't sell one or two at a time, but can get their products sometimes on McMaster-Carr. Type in BUMAX on McMaster-Carr and that is how I was able to obtain some of the bolts I am using. This BUMAX 316L fasteners are almost fully non magnetic, extremely corrosive resistant, and as hard as SAE J429 Grade 5 & 8. I think they have a US warehouse, but good luck getting small quantities. www.bumaxus.com
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Old 06-08-2012
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Re: 18-8/304/316/... SS fasteners?

This makes me wonder if the stainless bolts on my boats prop shaft flanges should be replaced with carbon steel bolts like it had.
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Old 06-08-2012
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Re: 18-8/304/316/... SS fasteners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
This makes me wonder if the stainless bolts on my boats prop shaft flanges should be replaced with carbon steel bolts like it had.
I hear you, the way I found out about this BUMAX stuff was from the guys on the Volvo racing team in the Volvo Ocean Race. Wow i sound like a volvo sales man. Joking aside the PM for the boat told me the switched everything to BUMAX 109 316L and reduced the size of many of their fasteners by almsot half. Ok now I sound like a BUMAX sales guy. Hope my small expereiance helps. Best way to stop salt water eating at everything is switch to fresh water sailing lol.
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Old 06-09-2012
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Re: 18-8/304/316/... SS fasteners?

I am certainly biased here, but I have been switching to titanium. It solves all the corrosion problems, and is much stronger than 300 series steel. Since fastener prices have started to come down, it is not nearly as bad as it used to be. Figure between 20 and 50% more than 316 stainless, the more commonly used sizes are cheaper regardless of size for fasteners typically.

Check the prices at McMaster Carr for type 2 or 5 titanium nuts and bolts. Type 5 is the go to for the Marine environment for its strength, but a lot of bits are only commonly available in type 2.

If McMaster doesn't have what you need let me know, our catalog covers fasteners from 1mm up to around 4 inches.
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Old 06-09-2012
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Re: 18-8/304/316/... SS fasteners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
This makes me wonder if the stainless bolts on my boats prop shaft flanges should be replaced with carbon steel bolts like it had.
Assuming your flanges are carbon steel or cast iron I would use carbon steel bolts. Stainless bolts, particularly passivated, are much more noble than carbon steel. Over time the flanges could corrode under and around the bolts and nuts (unless you used something to isolate them electrically, like Tef-Gel) and the resulting lash will result in damage.

This isn't time critical in my view - just swap back this year. Use an anti-seize compound on the nuts and either lock washers or safety wire. I have a drilling jig for wire holes if you want to borrow it.
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