Windlass choices

[jbrockpiano]

My boat is an Islander 30 about 10,000 lbs. Sometimes when single handing it is rough duty to get the anchor up by hand when there is a breeze and no one at the helm so I am considering a windlass. I was looking at the Lewmar pro fish 700. I understand that it can be fitted with a remote control which would be handy. Any body have one ? Has it worked for you ? I sail in the PNW and in northern BC my average anchor depth is usually about 50' but sometimes as deep as 80' using a 22 lb bruce type anchor.
Thanks in advance for your helpful advice and recommendations.

[sailingdog]

I've used the Pro Fish 1000 and the 700. They're not bad. They can be fitted with a wired remote or a wireless remote IIRC. The wireless remotes are pretty useful, but the antenna has to be routed properly to work well. The only caveat I have about them is that they can be a PITA to unjam if the chain jams in the gypsy. Also, the manual retrieval feature leaves a lot to be desired.

Personally, I'd go with a manual windlass, rather than a powered one. They're more reliable, simpler to install and add less weight to the boat overall. No heavy cables to add, no additional batteries to add, etc.

BTW, I think your anchor is undersized for your boat. My boat is lighter than yours, but has more windage, being a trimaran with an 18' beam and about 4000 displacement, and I'm using a Rocna 15 (33 lbs.) as my primary anchor. It probably has ten times the holding power of your Bruce type anchor in most conditions, if not a bit more. I'd seriously recommend you think about upgrading your ground tackle setup to 5/16" G43 chain with 5/8" nylon rode and a 25-35 lb. next gen anchor... instead of the setup you have currently.

Given the cost of your boat, and the risk to you, your boat and your crew, it doesn't make much sense IMHO to have undersized, inadequate ground tackle. A Rocna 15, 270' of 5/8" nylon rode and 30' of G43 5/16" chain is less than $1000 and gives you a lot more holding power and peace of mind than your current setup would.

[jackdale]

What is your rode / chain combination?

You would have to carry 600 feet total to anchor in 80 feet of water.

I agree with SD's assessment, but would recommend 60 feet of chain.

Remotes are good, but not really necessary. Most attach in the anchor well. I have used a couple from the cockpit, but you still have to go forward to secure the anchor.

Personally I would just armstrong the rode and chain.

[sailingdog]

Good point about the total rode length... and upping the chain to 60' is probably wise... Of course, I can anchor in 4' of water pretty safely...so that may be shading my viewpoint a wee bit.

[jrd22]

I think your idea is a good one. A horizontal windlass is much less prone to jamming in my (limited, we have a vertical) experience and having a wired remote (wish we had one) would make deploying and retrieving much simpler when singlehanded, especially in tight anchorages or when stern tying. Our friend Steve (Seeyalater) has the same type of set up that you are considering and it works very well for him (he lives/cruises northern Van. Isl year round singlehanded). He has an all chain rode and a Bruce anchor (we have used a Bruce for decades on different boats and have never had a problem setting/holding here in the PNW). You might PM him and ask what he would do differently after years of experience with it (I'm sure he would be happy to assist). I've no experience with the Lewmar windlass you mentioned so can't help you there.

[Northeaster]

Got a great deal on a Maxwell Freedom 500 this spring (HamiltonMarine.com)and have been very happy with it. Have a Seafarer 30, with 50 ft of 1/4" chain and 250 ft 1/2" of 8-plait rode.

By the way, it said it would work on 3 stand rode, but that 8-plait was recommended. I tried using my almost new 3 strand, but had lots of problems with it kinking / jamming while paying out (even with anchor swivel).
Changed to 8-plait and has worked flawlessly. So much easier to drop the hook (25 lb Manson Supreme) for lunch, or just a break. Have hardwired remote toggle switch at helm and another on lower pushpit rail. Works well from both locations. Ran heavy cables (0) I think, from house bank to bow, and run engine / alternator usually while using windlass, although not necessary with adequate house bank.

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

BTW, I think your anchor is undersized for your boat. My boat is lighter than yours, but has more windage, being a trimaran with an 18' beam and about 4000 displacement, and I'm using a Rocna 15 (33 lbs.) as my primary anchor. It probably has ten times the holding power of your Bruce type anchor in most conditions, if not a bit more. I'd seriously recommend you think about upgrading your ground tackle setup to 5/16" G43 chain with 5/8" nylon rode and a 25-35 lb. next gen anchor... instead of the setup you have currently.

I've got a quick question on this and don't mean anything by it. However, from what I've read (as I've been looking to upgrade ground tackle) A boat the OP's size would be fine with 1/4" G40 chain and 1/2" rode with a 22# Delta.

It seems to me to suggest such additional (i'll call it) "overkill" is a waste. I would agree up sizing the anchor might be beneficial but the additional rode size would reduce the elasticity/damping and the additional chain size would add unneeded weight.

I haven't found anywhere...chain recommendations at WM, published recommendations etc. that would suggest that the sizes you are recommending are necessary.

Although I've been sailing many years, I know there are many people out there more experienced than I and I'm always looking to gain additional knowledge. Again, not meant to challenge anyone here, just looking for input/clarification.

[coreywoodworking]

I've been following the conversation too as I'm headed south to the Bahamas/Caribe and worry (due to expense and weight) that I need an all-chain rode so the coral doesn't shred my nylon.

To answer the above question, it's often said in anchoring articles that if you want to sleep well, upgrade one size in chain / rode / anchor choice (as Telstar has), especially if you (like me) don't carry insurance, though I suspect Telstar does. Heavy anchors and rodes are insurance.

If I had the bucks, I'd upgrade one size on all my anchors (I now carry 25 CQR, 25 Bruce, 22 Spade) for my beamy 28' sailboat, at 7200 displ. I keep looking for deals.

Not sure about Telstar's Rocna claim of more than 10x the Bruce. One great advantage of a Bruce, and why most of the charter boats carry a Bruce, is that if the wind direction changes, and it breaks out, it resets within feet of its original spot. Here in the northeast, I see Danforths on so many bows because they're so good in mud and sand, but several Practical Sailor tests show that if the Danforth breaks out, it rarely resets, if at all. That horrifies me.

[sailingdog]

Chain size is really dependent on anchor size and holding ability. There's no point in going with chain that is too light, since the rode is only as good as its weakest link.

A 22# Delta and 1/4" G43 chain might be fine for good weather for the OP, but would be too light for storm conditions IMHO. I am of the philosophy that you shouldn't have to carry a storm anchor, but that the primary anchor on a boat should be sized so that it can hold in a storm. After all, if you've gone to bed and a storm pops up, do you really want to be trying to set a storm anchor cause your primary is too small to be safe??? No, IMHO, it is much better to have a primary anchor that will hold in storm conditions reliably.

Most anchor recommendations are for normal, not storm conditions and as such, are going to leave you with undersized ground tackle.

Originally Posted by GMFL

I've got a quick question on this and don't mean anything by it. However, from what I've read (as I've been looking to upgrade ground tackle) A boat the OP's size would be fine with 1/4" G40 chain and 1/2" rode with a 22# Delta.

It seems to me to suggest such additional (i'll call it) "overkill" is a waste. I would agree up sizing the anchor might be beneficial but the additional rode size would reduce the elasticity/damping and the additional chain size would add unneeded weight.

I haven't found anywhere...chain recommendations at WM, published recommendations etc. that would suggest that the sizes you are recommending are necessary.

Although I've been sailing many years, I know there are many people out there more experienced than I and I'm always looking to gain additional knowledge. Again, not meant to challenge anyone here, just looking for input/clarification.

All chain isn't necessary to deal with coral. 60-90' of chain is usually more than sufficient, depending on the depth of the water you're anchoring in. 90' will give you nearly all chain in 15' of water at 6:1 scope. Of course, the shallower your draft, the more options you have.

Originally Posted by coreywoodworking

I've been following the conversation too as I'm headed south to the Bahamas/Caribe and worry (due to expense and weight) that I need an all-chain rode so the coral doesn't shred my nylon.

To answer the above question, it's often said in anchoring articles that if you want to sleep well, upgrade one size in chain / rode / anchor choice (as Telstar has), especially if you (like me) don't carry insurance, though I suspect Telstar does. Heavy anchors and rodes are insurance.

A decent anchor and rode is simply inexpensive insurance. A good anchor and rode is an important piece of safety gear... and can often be used to help in many emergencies. If you lose your engine or break something like the boom or mainsheet...anchoring will often give you a chance to deal with the problem without worrying about other things happening to make life even more complicated--like going aground or hitting other boats, etc.

If I had the bucks, I'd upgrade one size on all my anchors (I now carry 25 CQR, 25 Bruce, 22 Spade) for my beamy 28' sailboat, at 7200 displ. I keep looking for deals.

Not sure about Telstar's Rocna claim of more than 10x the Bruce. One great advantage of a Bruce, and why most of the charter boats carry a Bruce, is that if the wind direction changes, and it breaks out, it resets within feet of its original spot. Here in the northeast, I see Danforths on so many bows because they're so good in mud and sand, but several Practical Sailor tests show that if the Danforth breaks out, it rarely resets, if at all. That horrifies me.

The problem with a Bruce is that in many bottom conditions, it will break out and skip instead of resetting properly. Also, as a hop-and-skip anchor it has often shown to have relatively low holding power for its size, especially compared to next generation anchors like the Manson Supreme or Rocna. Check the December 2006 Yachting Monthly and the October 2006 Sail Magazine tests...

Danforths and other fluke design anchors are excellent in sand and mud, but have a lousy track record of dealing with reversing wind and current conditions, which IMHO makes them unsuitable for a primary anchor.