Traveler Position challenge

[mbrault]

I am finishing a complete restoration of a SANTANA 39. My plans are to integrate a full enclosed cockpit (using a custom arch and canvas). In order to do so, I will have to relocate the traveler of the main sail to a different location.




More Images / Drawings

Now: The Main sail traveler is located (longitudinal) 3/5 of the boom right in the cockpit (seat level). The sheets, traveling from the traveler to the boom are right in the way and prevent any "encapsulation" of the cockpit.

Solution 1: Position the Main Sail traveler on the roof portion of the boat (move 4 feet forward) which would then be approximately 1/4 of the boom length. (attach-point on the boom being relocated accordingly)

Solution 2:I am building an arch that will be positioned in the rear of the cockpit. I could integrate material and additional structure support to accommodate the Main Sail traveler. The position of the traveler would then be located a little behind the boom (attach-point on the boom being relocated accordingly)

Question A: Although I would prefer to go with option#2, I have serious concerns about the effect of elevating the traveler (which is a fixed component) vs being low (originally)? Would the boat be less steady / performent sailing to weather?

Question B: On solution 1, considering the lever effect of the boom (attach point being moved forward), Is it a bad idea to add such stress on the roof, or would it acceptable considering proper reinforcement of the boat in that area?

Thoughts and ideas are welcome! Thanks
email: mbrault@konsultech.com

[Faster]

My thoughts...

Having the traveler/sheet attachment only 1/4 the distance of the boom is really asking a lot of the sheet purchase and the boom itself, and would not be the right way to go about this.

The traveler aft obviously fits with your plans for the cockpit but engineering and constructing an arch able to withstand the loads is a challenge, with nasty consequences if you don't get it right..Hunter's early arches were a problem spot to the point they soon changed to SS tube designs.. I'd also want to avoid an excessively angled vector on the sheet attachment to the boom.

Perhaps you'd be better off here to forego the traveler altogether and invest in a good, powerful boom vang (hydraulic ideally) to help get back the sail trim measures you'd lose from not having a traveler - though you'll still have the issue of finding a strong point for the mainsheet attachment - perhaps the roof of your cockpit enclosure.

We won't get into the wisdom of these particular modifications - presumably you've heard the naysayers and are intent on going ahead...

[mbrault]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
At this point, I am considering all options, including the naysayers ones...

I am planing of using a good hydraulic boom vang anyways

Just for thinking purposes; If the solidity / rigidity of the arch was out of the equation. I would really like to ear your thoughts about the elevation of the traveler and the effect on the performance of the boat... I am under the impression that it would make it more vulnerable to side wind gusts, offering less resistance to the wind (tilting the boat) because of the lever effect of a higher traveler... Am I thinking straight?...

[Faster]

Originally Posted by mbrault

If the solidity / rigidity of the arch was out of the equation. I would really like to ear your thoughts about the elevation of the traveler and the effect on the performance of the boat... I am under the impression that it would make it more vulnerable to side wind gusts, offering less resistance to the wind (tilting the boat) because of the lever effect of a higher traveler... Am I thinking straight?...

Unless you're also elevating the boom, or even the aft end of the boom, (ie altering the sailplan) I don't see any particular change in the way the boat will sail. Without a change in the original sail/mast/boom configuration the boat should only be affected (negatively) by the added windage and drag of the enclosed cockpit.

If your plans involve raising the boom that will have an effect on your sailplan, reducing mainsail area, and also likely move the center of effort forward, resulting in a more neutral or perhaps lee helm depending on other issues like mast rake.

The only issue of a raised traveler, other than structural, would be having enough clearance between it and the boom for the blocks on the sheeting arrangement.

[mbrault]

Faster:
Your input is much appreciated... Thank you

[JKCatalina310]

I would have the same concerns about the arch failing. I always liked the Hunter concept with the traveler arch but could not buy into it enough to seriously look at one when we got a new boat (just bought this month).

The other issue I would have with that arch is that you could attach solar panels or radar, etc. to it the way you have it but you could not use it for dinghy davits.

As to the traveler on the cabin top. I don't thing that position would be an issue at all. Look at the Catalina designs. On my 310, the traveler is about 1/3 of the way down the boom. They rigged the sheet to go back to about the 1/2 down the boom and then forward. This Santana 39 has a cabin top traveler.

For other ideas, what about a new boom or extension to the boom and having a traveler on the stern like an old Bayfield?

[deniseO30]

Many Catalina's have multiple purchase (3 blocks on the boom) mainsheet controls on their cabin top travelers. your's would appear to be too far forward though. It just seems like you want to do allot of work to have an enclosed cockpit. Are you trying to make it a pilot house boat? Partially enclosed cockpit would be allot cheaper and still give you very good privacy when docked/moored. I like the long boom idea from JK though. put the trav way way back there.

[mbrault]

JKCatalina310
Thanks for your input. I have seen this picture of the Santana 39 before. You are right, other boat manufacturers went this way and we don't ear much complaints so far... Congratulation for you new boat by the way! Just by curiosity, How much reinforcement is there inside the roof to support the tension of the traveler? Thanks again

[JKCatalina310]

Originally Posted by mbrault

JKCatalina310How much reinforcement is there inside the roof to support the tension of the traveler? Thanks again

Hard to say on a newer Catalina. They have molded head liners that cover up a lot of the hardware. They also use "nut plates" glassed into the bottom layer of fiberglass, so you can't readily see how large this backing plate is. I will look in the owner's manual this weekend and see if there is any details there.

[mbrault]

Originally Posted by deniseO30

...It just seems like you want to do allot of work to have an enclosed cockpit. Are you trying to make it a pilot house boat? ...

Thanks for your input Denise
The idea behind the enclosed cockpit is more of comfort then anything else. This boat will be based near Quebec City and will be sailing St-Lawrence river / Labrador coast where the days are short and the temperature cold. I have made two trips last year bringing two boats back (to Montreal) from the Caribbeans. Both had a full encloseure and I realized that having the option of buttoning the cockpit was a blessing...

I have to say that the boat was entirely stripped and restored and I have not yet positioned the pedestal and the traveler (I will have to install them anyway)... Thanks again for your input!