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  #11  
Old 01-06-2011
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As a boat owner who owns just about every anchor made and one who has physically & thoroughly tested my anchors, more so than probably any other sailor I know, including the use of a digital load cell. I know why I use the anchor I use and why I don't use many of the others I own. I not only dive on my anchors but have physically and set them in shallow water monitored the behavior I have also set them in very challenging hard sand intertidal areas and load cell tested them on my own vessel in mud hard sand, eel grass & kelp. I don't know too many other boaters who go to that level of testing to make sure they are using the right product for themselves.

With 80% reverse thrust on our motor I can drag my 35# CQR around nearly every mud cove I have tried and this is AFTER it has been properly set. It has also un-set and not reset on us numerous times as my Fortress has too but I still use it as the stern anchor and there is no better anchor for a stern anchor IMHO.

Many of my other anchors, some old & some new, including the Fortress & Bruce, hold the entire 300-700 pounds of measured reverse thrust in nearly every bottom, the CQR does not. I my CQR's, I currently own two, had been great performers I would have never spent a dime trying to find a better anchor.

I have been meaning to do some more extensive holding tests with my digital load cell, which reads from 2 pounds to 5000 pounds, but have not had the time to do it.

I started doing this stuff, & invested in my own load cell, because I felt I could not trust any of the manufacturers or any of the tests I saw & read which were mostly pathetic in terms of any sort of scientific & fair comparisons. I also find I can't trust the manufacturers to be honest.

The Sail magazine tests were about the most fair except they gave some preferential treatment to a few of the products and not to others, so again, flawed. No anchor should have had ANY preferential treatment. PS is a joke when they compare a 22 pound plow to a 35 etc. etc.. Where are the 180 veering tests in difficult or hard bottoms??

Many folks think that their anchor holds well but may not have experienced loads greater than a few hundred pounds. I know one 40 year 100k+ nautical mile boater who still high tails it for a mooring every time winds are predicted above 25 yet he still uses a CQR. He does not trust his anchor in winds much over 25, pretty sad.....

The video below is just 17-20 knots and the loads are just a few hundred pounds on a 36 footer. The anchor I use has been tested to hold 5000 pounds in a hard bottom but I don't have many areas of real hard bottoms where I anchor on a regular basis. I do have them but soft mud is more common. I have been able to measure a peak surge load of 1.6k on it in very soft mud and she held great. I jsut don't have the ability to load her up any more than that unless we get a hurricane or I borrow my buddies lobster boat.

Digital load cell:
YouTube - Anchor Loads In 17-19 Knots On A 36 Foot Sloop

Reverse thrust for anchor setting:
YouTube - What Happens When I Back Down on My Anchor

P.S. The anchor I have been dragged down on most by is the CQR, like this guy in just 15 knots.....
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 01-06-2011 at 12:06 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2011
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We carry a Rocna as primary and a Fortress on a stanchion as a secondary. Below we have a Delta, a CQR and a Bruce. We carry a Fortress on our dink. I don't think we'll ever be at a loss for having an anchor to choose from, although a fisherman would be good if we were in a boulder based bottom. I'm sure that the CQR was one of the best anchors of its generation, but just like everything else anchors have evolved. Will the CQR work well 99.2% of the time? Perhaps. But the newest generation was designed to work well 99.4% of the time (statistics are just being used for example purposes and are not real) - and I'll take that extra 0.2% when I have my kids onboard, the wind is blowing 50kts+, we have an opposing 5kt current from the rain, and we're anchored in its full force just off the beach at the Ponce de Leon inlet (like we had happen to us). It's OK for products to evolve, but even the prior generation solutions have their place.
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Old 01-06-2011
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Anchor Veering tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Where are the 180 veering tests in difficult or hard bottoms??
Maine Sail,

Excellent input. Please check out Table 2 and Table 3 of a completely independent anchor test with veering results that simulate a wind shift:

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anch....htm#Table%203

Thanks,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
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Old 01-06-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianFortress View Post
Maine Sail,

Excellent input. Please check out Table 2 and Table 3 of a completely independent anchor test with veering results that simulate a wind shift:

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anch....htm#Table%203

Thanks,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
If that is the Puget sound tests I have seen it but the current link you gave is dead. Again, if my memory serve me correctly, that was a soft bottom test. Pretty easy for just about any anchor to re-set in soft mud. I am looking for hard bottom tests?


Here's a hard sand observation I just happened to video.
YouTube - CQR vs Rocna - Hard Sand Setting Comparison


And here's a Manson Supreme video underwater with a 180 veer:


And a Manson Supreme riding out 80 knots:
YouTube - windy anchorage
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 01-06-2011 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 01-06-2011
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Try this link instead, his is borked.

Results 1-3

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianFortress View Post
Maine Sail,

Excellent input. Please check out Table 2 and Table 3 of a completely independent anchor test with veering results that simulate a wind shift:

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anch....htm#Table%203

Thanks,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
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—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 01-06-2011
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Anchor veering tests

Maine Sail,

Sorry for the dead link. Have a look a this one, Table 2 and Table 3:

http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...chor+study.pdf

I think the bottom was sand.

Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2011
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One issue is that test is 15 YEARS OLD, and the next gen anchors that you're talking about weren't tested then, since they (the Rocna/Manson Supreme) didn't come onto the market until about ten years after that test was done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianFortress View Post
Maine Sail,

Sorry for the dead link. Have a look a this one, Table 2 and Table 3:

http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...chor+study.pdf

I think the bottom was sand.

Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
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New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #18  
Old 01-06-2011
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My primary anchor is 2000# of concrete, and I have less confidence in it than my 20kg Bruce. I guess thats because when shes on the mooring, I'm probably in the house, and on the hook I, as captain have the confidence in my ability to alleviate danger as it presents itself. I have tripple anchored in 60kt winds, and slept, though restlessly, but I'd rather not be exposed to them. I believe skills and experience are more important to anchoring than equipment, within limits.
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Old 01-06-2011
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That's a mooring, not an anchor. Also, concrete is a lousy material for moorings, since it is relatively low in density. Your 2000# block of concrete has an effective weight of 1100# or so once submersed, less in salt water.

Quote:
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My primary anchor is 2000# of concrete, and I have less confidence in it than my 20kg Bruce. I guess thats because when shes on the mooring, I'm probably in the house, and on the hook I, as captain have the confidence in my ability to alleviate danger as it presents itself. I have tripple anchored in 60kt winds, and slept, though restlessly, but I'd rather not be exposed to them. I believe skills and experience are more important to anchoring than equipment, within limits.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #20  
Old 01-06-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I'd point out that if the CQR, Bruce, Claw, etc., were all that effective, there would have been no need for the newer, more effective designs.
Really? There are a lot of things people buy that they have no need for (like yachts). Not saying anything here about next-gen anchors, but this logic is pretty flawed :P
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