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  #21  
Old 01-06-2011
S/V Lilo, Islander 32
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I'd point out that if the CQR, Bruce, Claw, etc., were all that effective, there would have been no need for the newer, more effective designs.
I am not saying new is not better then old, but I do have to disagree here. Simply because something is new, shiny, different and "next generation" does not make it better. New manufacturers come out with new designs because they want a piece of the market so they can make money. If they can convince you that there product is "next generation" and therefor better by default, they will get more money. It's the capitalistic way.

Are they better? Perhaps, and perhaps they are better for certain hull shapes, bottom types and anchoring tactics, but possibly not for others, but they are certainly not better just because they are newer designs.
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  #22  
Old 01-06-2011
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To Sailingdog, yes it is a mooring. Your math seems a little off to me, but then maybe the water on the East Coast has less salinity. It has an effective submerged weight of 600#'s. FYI
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianFortress View Post
Paulo,

Good point. I just posted the below on a different forum in response to a "new" generation anchor manufacturer. This holding power test pitted "new" vs. "old" generation anchors:

The 40,000 member Swedish Cruising Association has been conducting anchor holding power tests off of their coast for over 20 years. They take boating very seriously over there, as 1 in 7 Swedes owns a boat.

Below is a link to a page with the results of a test that they conducted this past summer in a clay bottom near their shoreline:

http://www.watski.se/mail/anp/ankartest.pdf

As you will note, the new generation Ultra and Rocna anchors only achieved 2 stars out of a possible 5.

The other roll bar anchor, a Bugel, which I guess is an old generation anchor since its design has been copied, achieved 3 stars, as did the old generation Danforth anchor.

You might find the results of the other anchors tested to be of interest as well. I am working on an English translation and I hope to provide one shortly.

Safe boating,
Brian Sheehan

Fortress Marine Anchors
Fortress worked well on most bottoms on most tests I have read, and believe me they were a lot, in several languages. I find the Aluminum ones particularly interesting as second anchors (I like fast and light boats ).

But that seems to me quite an incomplete test. They have tested only on clay? That is only a kind of bottom and an anchor can be good on clay and bad on other kinds of bottoms (and vice versa). And they only tested those anchors? Where are the Spade that is the reference in most anchor tests?

Regards

Paulo
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2011
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Dave Thomas of Wendy's fame was a genius for taking a 2 cent baked potato and adding a few ingredients and whola...a several dollar item on the menu. To me that's not unlike the anchor makers who take a lump of iron and through their magic are able to sell them for hundreds of dollars. This isn't rocket science but to hear their claims it surely is. More power to them, but let the competition flurish to hopefully bring the prices down!
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  #25  
Old 01-06-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
One issue is that test is 15 YEARS OLD, and the next gen anchors that you're talking about weren't tested then, since they (the Rocna/Manson Supreme) didn't come onto the market until about ten years after that test was done.
Another good point. There are recent tests, i.e. the test in Sweden that I referenced earlier in this post, in which the new generation anchors were represented....and they did not fair well. There are other independent tests that I would be glad to send you.

But you lead me to another issue: Where is the holding power test data from the new generation anchor manufacturers?

When you are manufacturing as an important piece of safety equipment as an anchor, which could save a boat or even a life, should you not have tested your anchor in the best and worst of bottom conditions, i.e. hard sand and soft mud, and then made the results public????

Also, rather than rely solely on independent test data, shouldn't the "new" generation anchor manufacturers have proven through their own extensive tests in various bottom conditions that their anchors offer superior performance?

Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
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  #26  
Old 01-06-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Fortress worked well on most bottoms on most tests I have read, and believe me they were a lot, in several languages. I find the Aluminum ones particularly interesting as second anchors (I like fast and light boats ).

But that seems to me quite an incomplete test. They have tested only on clay? That is only a kind of bottom and an anchor can be good on clay and bad on other kinds of bottoms (and vice versa). And they only tested those anchors? Where are the Spade that is the reference in most anchor tests?

Regards

Paulo
Hi Paulo,

I am sorry that I can't offer you answers to your questions. I suspect that the bottom conditions there in Sweden are predominantly clay, and maybe they did not have easy access to a Spade anchor for the test.

In the holding power tests that I have seen, the Spade has always performed well.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
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  #27  
Old 01-06-2011
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All i can say is on Long Island we have anchored everywere from the Toys are US in Brookyln during a 50 knot storm to places all over the east end and north shore in 24' to 35' boats and never had a problem holding with and old school sand anchor
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  #28  
Old 01-06-2011
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My Swedish is not so good, so I'm not entirely sure what's being tested in that Swedish test. I'm guessing it's the ratio of ultimate holding power to weight, in which the Fortress and other aluminum fluke anchors seem to generally take the top spot.

Personally I care very little about ultimate holding power, and a lot more about the anchor's ability to reset after a wind or tide shift. My aluminum fluke anchor fails miserably at that; I don't bother with it for anything except kedging and emergencies nowadays. Whenever I have the option, I go with my 22 lb. Claw. Never had it fail to set on the first try, and never broke out and failed to reset (and we have big tides here). Never dragged significantly, even in conditions when other boats ended up on the beach.

I have zero confidence that an aluminum fluke would do the same for me, after a small number of pretty astonishing failures.
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  #29  
Old 01-06-2011
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Not many anchor tests or information about it on the net. Just some that I have found out:

Boat Anchor Review - Power & Motoryacht - Anchors Aweigh

http://www.rocna.com/press/press_0612_wm_ym_testing.pdf

Voiles et Voiliers : Recherche Par Tag

The ultimate anchor test?..
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  #30  
Old 01-06-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
My Swedish is not so good, so I'm not entirely sure what's being tested in that Swedish test. I'm guessing it's the ratio of ultimate holding power to weight, in which the Fortress and other aluminum fluke anchors seem to generally take the top spot.

Personally I care very little about ultimate holding power, and a lot more about the anchor's ability to reset after a wind or tide shift. My aluminum fluke anchor fails miserably at that; I don't bother with it for anything except kedging and emergencies nowadays. Whenever I have the option, I go with my 22 lb. Claw. Never had it fail to set on the first try, and never broke out and failed to reset (and we have big tides here). Never dragged significantly, even in conditions when other boats ended up on the beach.

I have zero confidence that an aluminum fluke would do the same for me, after a small number of pretty astonishing failures.
Fluke anchors are designed to provide strong holding on a light frame, in one direction. I'm not sure if they were designed then, but their first widespread used was during WWII on landing craft. They would deploy the anchor on the way in to the beach, and if they hit a reef or were beached, they would pull themselves back off with a windless.

Strong hold, light weight, one direction. They are good as river anchors, stern anchors (when used in fore and aft anchoring) and any other situation where the force will all be in one direction, but they will never be as good as others in re-setting, it's just not what they are made for.
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