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Old 01-23-2011
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Suitable products for sealing deck hardware and windows

Hi folks - If anyone knowledgeable bumps into this, I'd appreciate some advice.

I'm doing a bit of maintenance on an 70's fiberglass trailer sailor. I'd be interested to know the best sealant for around the windows (between rubber seal, perspex window, and fiberglass cabin). I have some acid cure silicone - be OK?

Also, re-bedding the deck hardware - whats best here? I've got some epoxy resin, or I could use a flexible silicone.

What sort of paint can be used over epoxy? Would water based acrylic house paint stick, or would a special primer be required? [would be used in the interior only].

Thanks in advance for anyone taking the time to offer some pointers here.
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Old 01-23-2011
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Dow corning 795 is good for portlights, as is butyl tape - which can be used for lots of other rebedding jobs. Plenty of threads on the subject here - try searching the forums.
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Old 01-23-2011
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Don't use any silicone sealant but Dow Corning 795. Most everything else will leak horribly... I'd point out that silicone sealant and 3M 5200 have very few legitimate uses on a boat and should NOT BE USED except in very, very limited circumstances.

For bedding any deck hardware that is THROUGH-BOLTED, use butyl tape unless it is exposed to diesel or gasoline regularly, since either will eat the butyl tape.

Most any paint can be applied over properly prepped epoxy, though a primer is often a good idea.
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Old 01-24-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
I'd point out that silicone sealant and 3M 5200 have very few legitimate uses on a boat and should NOT BE USED except in very, very limited circumstances.
That's an interesting observation.

I know people in Auckland who have a successful business that works exclusively in the superyacht maintenance market, have been for many years, are widely respected as masters of their craft and who routinely use 3M 5200 for a range of different applications.

I'd better pass on the bad news . . . .
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Old 01-24-2011
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I second that.

I second the use of butyl tape as a sealant instead of silicone. Far easier to use, clean up, and seals wonderfully. If you don't know you can get the tape at any RV repair shop. It's what they use to seal around windows, etc.


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Old 02-11-2011
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Thanks for those replies. For what its worth, I'll add a few findings that might be of use to others in a similar position as me (particularly NZ'ers with our associated range of available products,.. or lack of). Have to admit I thought it would have been easier than it was in finding much info. Seems like there is a bit of 3M and Dow stuff around, but mainly Sika in Aotearoa.

I talked to a couple of boat builders, including those who made my boat 30-odd years ago (his dad then). They recommended Sika 291 for deck hardware, as do the Sika people I talked to. I assume its a not so permanent/sticky polyurethane ie not like 3M 5200. Sika 291 can also be used below the waterline for my winch U-bolt - handy.

For the leaky windows, new rubbers would be ideal (My windows have no screws or bolts, hence no means of compression to aid sealing). But failing this a butyl mastic. Can't find decent butyl tape in NZ yet - if you read this and know, pass it on. Sika made something called Lastomer 710 (butyl sealant) but it is recently discontinued. My only other option is Sika SNB - another [softer?] butyl mastic - so I'll try that. There's a product for plastic windows - 295UV - but I suspect its not ideal for rubber. Couldn't get a straight answer on that one. Sika suggested the SNB mastic for plastic to rubber join. Acid cure silicone sticks to rubber, but not durable enough, so we will leave the tube of that in the draw.
I'll trial mastic versus polyurethane on deck hardware - maybe report back. And for anyone reading this, wanting some good advice on installation of deck hardware, check out 'Re-Bedding Deck Hardware Photo Gallery by Compass Marine at pbase.com' Some sensible info.
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Old 02-11-2011
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While they may be successful, it doesn't mean they're doing things properly. Look at Don Casey and his "let it cure then tighten the bolts approach" to bedding hardware....probably very widely followed, but one of the dumbest ways possible to do it.

As another example, look at Microsoft and Windows...it's very successful, but it is clearly not the right way to do things, if you consider the billions of dollars and millions of man-hours spent on anti-virus, anti-malware and security patches for the OS over the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
That's an interesting observation.

I know people in Auckland who have a successful business that works exclusively in the superyacht maintenance market, have been for many years, are widely respected as masters of their craft and who routinely use 3M 5200 for a range of different applications.

I'd better pass on the bad news . . . .
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Old 02-11-2011
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Microsoft is successful because they sell a lot of stuff through great marketing not because their products always work.

The contractor I refer is successful because the work he does always works and never fails and he does it on VERY expensive boats where shoddy or unsuccessful work is not an option.

It's a poor analogy. Oh and I believe Don Casey has also had the benefit of extensive experience and may I say, probably more than you? So you have used the stuff once or twice on a cheap, probably highly flexible boat and it didn't work for you so now it's OK to trash the product on the internet?

I think you owe it to members here not to pass on spurious information based on your failures. Unless of course you can provide reasonably extensive professionally-verified records of product failure in which case I will retract and apologise (do not read this as a retraction or apology).
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Old 02-13-2011
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Coaster,

I've used Sika 291 a fair bit for deck and below the water fittings and it works fine. A lot of the US products are not available in Oz and I guess that they are probably not available in NZ either.

Ilenart
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Old 02-13-2011
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You don't know me or what my background is, or what experience I have, yet you think you have the ability to comment on it. I hate to break it to you, but I'm not the only one on this forum that feels this way about 5200. Maine Sail, among many others, has posted on this very topic quite a bit. I've also been working on boats since I was about 12 off-and-on, of all different sorts, both power and sail and base what I say on my experience with the stuff. The fact that you leap to such conclusions say a lot about what kind of person you are and how intelligent you are.

The issues with 5200 are that it is not really a sealant but an adhesive. If you ever have to remove the hardware that has been bedded with 5200, you often have to use far too much force and can end up doing damage to the boat. The adhesion strength of 5200 is enough that it can peel the gelcoat off the laminate in many cases. If the hardware is properly installed with through-bolts, there is absolutely no reason to use such a product. There is very little hardware on a boat that will not have to be removed periodically, if only to be re-bedded or inspected. 5200 makes that nearly impossible to do in a reasonable fashion.

While I agree that Don Casey has more experience than me...I believe, with good reason, that his advice to allow sealants to cure and then to fully tighten the nuts is badly given. It isn't effective, and if the fastener holes are properly countersunk, totally unnecessary.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Microsoft is successful because they sell a lot of stuff through great marketing not because their products always work.

The contractor I refer is successful because the work he does always works and never fails and he does it on VERY expensive boats where shoddy or unsuccessful work is not an option.

It's a poor analogy. Oh and I believe Don Casey has also had the benefit of extensive experience and may I say, probably more than you? So you have used the stuff once or twice on a cheap, probably highly flexible boat and it didn't work for you so now it's OK to trash the product on the internet?

I think you owe it to members here not to pass on spurious information based on your failures. Unless of course you can provide reasonably extensive professionally-verified records of product failure in which case I will retract and apologise (do not read this as a retraction or apology).
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 02-13-2011 at 07:27 AM.
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