Help choosing my barrier coat system: Interprotect vs. West System vs. Other? - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #21  
Old 02-09-2011
T37Chef's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,358
Thanks: 74
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 9
T37Chef will become famous soon enough
Don't have time to read them myself, but here:

http://www.pettitpaint.com/fileshare...ds/1470122.pdf

http://www.yachtpaint.com/MPYACMData...Y+20100614.pdf
__________________
Cheers,
Shawn & the crew of S/V Windgeist

1982 Tartan 37 CB - Hull #358


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 02-09-2011
Beersmith's Avatar
Sailing to surf
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: St. Augustine, FL
Posts: 208
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Beersmith is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
thanks
__________________
My boat rebuild/sailing blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 02-09-2011
zz4gta's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 2,468
Thanks: 0
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 8
zz4gta is on a distinguished road
There will be a difference in performance between a smooth bottom and one w/ orange peel. Not a big difference, but there will be one. Just put on an extra coat of barrier, and then sand it with 80 or 120 before the bottom paint. Should knock down any lumpiness and make for a pretty smooth finish.
__________________
Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 02-09-2011
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,496
Thanks: 7
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
If you are going to sand the faired areas or the bottom in total for smoothness, be sure to use a long board, see 3m Longboard, as that's the only way to remove the high points. You also need to use a long board if you actually shape your foils, which is pretty unusual outside of one-design racing.

This is an ugly and painful job best done by teenagers.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 02-09-2011
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,966
Thanks: 10
Thanked 89 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
No need to sand a 'new' barrier coat to make it smooth.
You can apply the first coat with a roller but successive coats with a large polyethylene trowel (not a roller) and 'fill' the previous hills and valleys from the roller application. Method: roll on and immediately 'wipe' with a trowel, the semi-hard 'peaks' from the first 'roller coat' will set the height for the trowel to 'glide' on --- thus quickly filling and fairing the 'valleys'. This 'troweling' is in the same manner as applying the final gelcoat to a MALE plug mold. For perfectly smooth and faired you can finish with a thinned out fairing coat using a BIG trowel.... and the WHOLE job should be continuous so that NO layer 'fully cures' so that there is continuous bonding throughout. This can include the first bottom paint coats (hot-coating) for much better 'adhesion'.

----------------------------
The MOST IMPORTANT characteristic or goal of ANY barrier coat system is the MIL-THICKNESS. Without the proper mil-thickness you are vulnerable to future water (principally water vapor) permeation through the barrier coat into the FRG. With a roller you have to apply MORE barrier so that the deepest 'valley' is at the proper thickness; with a smooth or troweled-on application that required thickness is more easily controlled.

How to know that you have the proper thickness --- go to an industrial paint/coating supply and get 'mil-thickness gages'. These are 'little comb-like or 'toothed' gages' that you 'push' into the fresh/wet paint or coating and if you get discontinuous dots or dashes in the fresh surface instead of lines the thickness is too small and you need to add more paint/coating. With solvent based coatings you need to calculate the % solids so that when the solvents 'flash off' and the coating 'shrinks' you ultimately arrive at the recommended 'dry' mil thickness not the 'wet' / 'as applied' mil thickness.

Each barrier coating mfg. lists the proper 'thickness' in their 'tech manuals'. If you dont apply to the recommended (dry) mil thickness, you can expect to not have sufficient barrier applied and you will/may/can after some time observe the 'return' of the blisters/pimples. I always apply more thickness than what the mfg. recommends as I dont want to do a job 'twice' ... and barrier coating manufacturers seem to always continually 'increase' their thickness recommendations over time.

hope this helps.

Last edited by RichH; 02-09-2011 at 11:45 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 02-09-2011
Beersmith's Avatar
Sailing to surf
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: St. Augustine, FL
Posts: 208
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Beersmith is on a distinguished road
Thanks for this information. I am curious about the trowelling method, it seems that trowelling on successive layers would be considerably thinner than if applied by roller. Am I just overthinking it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
No need to sand a 'new' barrier coat to make it smooth.
You can apply the first coat with a roller but successive coats with a large polyethylene trowel (not a roller) and 'fill' the previous hills and valleys from the roller application. Method: roll on and immediately 'wipe' with a trowel, the semi-hard 'peaks' from the first 'roller coat' will set the height for the trowel to 'glide' on --- thus quickly filling and fairing the 'valleys'. This 'troweling' is in the same manner as applying the final gelcoat to a MALE plug mold. For perfectly smooth you can finish with a thinned out fairing coat .... and the WHOLE job should be continuous so that NO layer 'fully cures' so that there is continuous bonding throughout. This can include the first bottom paint coats (hot-coating) for much better 'adhesion'.

----------------------------
The MOST IMPORTANT characteristic or goal of ANY barrier coat system is the MIL-THICKNESS. Without the proper mil-thickness you are vulnerable to future water (principally water vapor) permeation through the barrier coat into the FRG. With a roller you have to apply MORE barrier so that the deepest 'valley' is at the proper thickness; with a smooth or troweled-on application that required thickness is more easily controlled.

How to know that you have the proper thickness --- go to an industrial paint supply and get 'mil-thickness gages'. These are 'little comb-like or 'toothed' gages' that you 'push' into the fresh/wet paint or coating and if you get discontinuous dots or dashes in the fresh surface instead of lines the thickness is too small and you need to add more paint/coating. With solvent based coatings you need to calculate the % solids so that when the solvents 'flash off' you ultimately arrive at the recommended 'dry' mil thickness not the 'wet' / 'as applied' mil thickness.

Each barrier coating mfg. lists the proper 'thickness' in their 'tech manuals'. If you dont apply to the recommended (dry) mil thickness, you can expect to not have sufficient barrier applied and you will/may/can after some time observe the 'return' of the blisters/pimples. I always apply more thickness than what the mfg. recommends as I dont want to do a job 'twice' ... and barrier coating manufacturers seem to always continually 'increase' their thickness recommendations over time.

hope this helps.
__________________
My boat rebuild/sailing blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 02-09-2011
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,966
Thanks: 10
Thanked 89 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
No, the peaks and pimple-tops from the previous 'roll coat' set the depth, the trowel 'rides' on top of the previous peaks. Usually takes 2-3 trowel applications to get the barrier smooth. You dont want to knock-down the first/previous 'pimples' with a trowel as they set the height for the trowel to fill. If you find that youre not 'thick enough' add another 'roll coat' and let partly cure.

You can apply bottom paint in the same way ... and you get a smoothness equivalent to 'almost as smooth as a babies ass'. Smooth surfaces have less adhesion for 'growth' ... and 'release' faster and more completely when at speed - less 'roughness' for the crap to 'stick to'. With smooth applied ablatives you also get longer life as the 'total' surface area exposed is at a minimum - somewhat important if you seen the latest prices for ablatives.

Last edited by RichH; 02-09-2011 at 12:34 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 02-09-2011
engele's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 54
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
engele is an unknown quantity at this point
Could not be more true

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
This is an ugly and painful job best done by teenagers.
I can verify the truth of this. After spending many many hours with a longboard I passed the hat (and the respirator) to a broke teen in need of work, and it was the best spent $200 I have ever made (our agreement was for $100, but I couldn't do it when payday came. We were both happy).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 02-09-2011
Beersmith's Avatar
Sailing to surf
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: St. Augustine, FL
Posts: 208
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Beersmith is on a distinguished road
West System describes applying the barrier coat using a roller, then tipping off with a piece of cut up roller to smooth out the application. Would this method work just as well with Interlux, Pettit, or whatever product I use? Or even tipping off with a brush to avoid the orange peel?

Such as described here: Barrier Coating

__________________
My boat rebuild/sailing blog:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 02-09-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I don't see why it shouldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beersmith View Post
West System describes applying the barrier coat using a roller, then tipping off with a piece of cut up roller to smooth out the application. Would this method work just as well with Interlux, Pettit, or whatever product I use? Or even tipping off with a brush to avoid the orange peel?

Such as described here: Barrier Coating

__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tips for barrier coating with Interprotect? mrybas Gear & Maintenance 4 08-20-2010 11:45 AM
West System SIX10 kwaltersmi Gear & Maintenance 1 03-18-2010 02:58 PM
West System Pumps. Suberk Gear & Maintenance 9 03-03-2009 12:28 PM
Curious about the West Epoxy System BigAssHam Sailboat Design and Construction 14 11-22-2007 10:48 PM
WEST SYSTEM Boys Bilge_Scum General Discussion (sailing related) 0 07-07-2001 05:30 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:45 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.