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SOS
I am a woman and have been stranded dockside due to non-running 1976 ericson with an old faithfull atomic 4. It starts, idles rough then dies when the throttle handle is moved. I have checked the fuel pump(which is clear), changed the plugs (which was coated with black stuff) and fuel filter. The choke works (moves back and forth like it should). Checked for sparks between the plugs and the wires and stared at it for many hours hoping it will start and even fiddled with the idle needle valve. Is there any hope but to remove the carb?
I am having serious withdrawal symptoms from not sailing! any help would be apppreciated.
If you''ve got spark, and you know she''s pumping fuel, then the next thing is the carb. How long has it been since it was last taken off and cleaned? Over the winters and idle times, gasoline breaks down and evaporates, yet leaves a residue or tar behind.
I don''t know how handy you are, but if you feel comfortable, it''s not too hard fix. In fact you have a couple of choices here.
The easiest and most expensive, call the mechanic in and he''ll hand you a bill that will make you seem like you bought a brand new engine.
Next, your options are more do-it-yourself. You can try a spray carb cleaner, but the engine has to at least run for this to work. Remove the air cleaner and any hoses or ductwork to reveal the carb. If you get it to idle, you can then spray the carb cleaner down the throat of the carb. This may make it stall, so be gentle at first, not too much. Then if it starts to run better you know you are on the right track. Once it starts to accept throttle, you can spray more and clean things up pretty well. I''d then put a can of injector/carb cleaner in the fuel tank. It will also make things run rough, so you only want to do that once in a while.
If the spray approach does not work, you may have to remove the carb and either clean it yourself or have it done at a shop. I would not attempt this if you are at all internal combustionally challenged. A simple fix is to take it down to a marine engine parts shop and get a rebuilt unit. You will get a core return for your old carb and get a factory reconditioned unit in return. The core return fee is only pennies on the dollar, but it keeps the parts supply for rebuilds moving along.
Symptoms sound similar to a dirty emulsion tube in the carb ... or fouled jet.
The emulsion tube is VERY sensitive to any amount of debris/dirt and give symptoms as you describe. When was the last time you changed your fuel filter???????
For further ''problems'' suggest you get a copy of Don Moyer''s "Atomic-4 Maintenance & Repair Manual" www.moyermarine.com --- best manual ever written for the A4. Its pricey; but, one ''episode solved'' by consulting the manual will pay for the book.
I have owned 2 boats wiht A4s. I had one with the very symptoms you discribe. It turned out to be carburator ice. I ran a foil tube from a warm place on the exhaust to the carb intake. Never had the problem again. Might not be your problem but would be worth checking out. Hang an electic blow drier in front of the intake and see if the problem goes away. Good Luck in any case.
P.S. I think the A4 is a great engine!!!
Make sure that the spark plug wires from the distributor are going to the correct spark plugs.
The symptoms you describe (starts, idles rough, dies when throttle advanced) match "crossed plug wires", as well as some carburetor- and fuelline-dirt problems.
Especially if someone was working on the engine, this is a likely condition -- and a real confusing one, because everything _looks_ OK.
Well, what was the fix? The original post was on June 10, is it still broke? There should be a law that the originator has to come back.
I was going to vote for the fuel pump. She said it was "clear" but is it operational? Will it idle roughly indefinitely or only with some choke or ? ? ? If the pump is bad it will idle but die when it gets too much air(when the throttle opens). Just like a clogged filter or fuel line.
So Sorry. Only so much time to work on this monster and email too.
Thanks for all the advice.
I have purchased and installed from don moyer a new carb. rebuilt original and have for emergency throw toy.
Installed a new electronic ignition.
New plugs, twice gapped (checked 3 times)
New rotor, points (set gap 4 times) and condensor (twice)
Checked and recheck distributer wires.
Get spark between coil and block,
Get spark between spark plugs and block
Rechecked fuel pump. Plenty in bilge now.
Ohm tested coil (ok)
replaced marine batteries x2
spayed wd40, and engine starter ether into flame arrestor and spark plug holes.
Thumb tested compression (plenty of puffed air there)
have read 3 origional atomic 4 manuels (can make copies if desired)
Have read don moyer manuel twice.
Changed fuel filter once.
Added water treatment to gas tank
Checked exhaust for blockage
Checked plugs for water and other fouling (none noted)
Check, Checked and rechecked. Everyone I
talk to says it should run, now it just spurts.
Am fed up and have called in the gutters.
FOR SALE AND REMOVAL ONE ATOMIC 4
Docked sadly corpus christi texas
Plan on taking to the bankers and seeing about putting an electric motor in from solomon technologies.
PS I have looked at others atomic 4 engines in similar boats that run which you would not want to show your mothers. Mine is so clean you would be proud to show your mother in law.
I am probably risking my life jumping in at this point, but if it were me I would beg, borrow, or steal a carb off of a working engine and put it on and see what happens. It is not a tough job on this engine.
You did not list a rebuild of the carb - and carbs can actually wear out. In addition, a proper rebuild requires compressed air to really clean out the jets.
If this failied I would then get a compression guage - acheapy from Pet Boys - and do a real test.
TO Tumbleweed 35?
I did not intend to use sailnet as ebay. The offer for sale is made in complete frustration. If I can get a diesel or work out an electric install, the monster can be had at fair market value. ($0)
E mail me at Jwellsfamily4@yahoo.com and if the monster is taken out (probable at this point) I will let you know what that may be.
I feel your pain. I had similar experience with an A4.
You did not mention checking the ignition TIMING. Be sure this is correct (consult manual). The blackened spark plugs and inability to start cold (I assume) with the choke tell me that the engine is either way out of timing (too retarded) or getting too much fuel. The spark plug insulators should be light brown in color when all is well. On mine, I found that there was too much coil output which could not be contained by the distributor cover so arcing resulted and it ran rough.
There are drop in diesel replacements for A4 gas engines. Search on the internet and also look at:
I can''t believe that theres not a person in texas that wouldn''t help a lady in distress by the way you are ignoring the fact that the motor has a vacumn leak which would also cuase it to run rich and not respone to the throttle,did you install a new gasket on the carb base when you exchanged it.Sorry I''m not near for a few beers the basic checks could be done in about thirty minutes.
Good idea on the vacume leak. All new gaskets where used when the carb was exchanged. Could a vacume leak come from some other place, and if so how can you check for it. (soap bubbles?)
SORRY I''ve been sailing all weekend an just got back. You could have a leak from almost anywhere like the vacuum advance hose or line depending on what you are looking at also the intake manifold could be loose or have a blown gasket speaking of blown gaskets have you checked the oil if it''s white an foamy looking you might have a head gasket leak or blown out between cylinders and the water jacket. Check the cheap things first,air line leaks etc just because it''s metal does not mean it can''t leak hope this helps by the way. if you take a turkey baster with clean fresh water and squirt around the manifold the water will stop the leak for a second the engine will sound normal not too much water it won''t compress like gas
Sure chuck;
Prepare for the maiden voyage as a sailing prurist. We leave if the winds allow this saturday just like the great expolorers before atomic 4 was born.
Well...... the story continues. The atomic 4 now runs. After testing again: The fuel pump, coil, distributor, spark plugs,, spark plug wires, condenser, points, and compression. All where found to work.
Compression on cylinder one is 90, cylinder 2 is 90, 3 and 4 are 110. Unfortunately it only runs when spark plug #1 is out of the block. This results in massive fume buildup in the boat, but it actually runs.
Now, some more help please. I am a bit stumped.
Why would it do this? I have 4 sparkplugs in and it will not run. I take one out at it does.
Some dockside experts say this could be anything from a blown head gasket, to a stuck valve, a warped or cracked head, or gunk on the rings?
I put marvel mystery oil in the spark plug holes while I meditate on this once again.
I suppose I qualify as "dockside experts"Its starting to sound like the timing is off or your plug wires are crossed easy fix,but with compession readings like that on one and two I would suspect a blown head gasket there should be no more than a ten percent drop on any cylinder look at the oil an see if you have light colored slime in it or on the dipstick. Also check the motor cooling system for signs of oil. I think it''s time for you to get an expert in there before you or someone else does something very expensive to the motor. By the way westebecke makes a bolt in replacement for A-4 good luck
Ok, It is almost done. Imported a old man from north dakota this weekend. We pulled the head manifold and inspected the heads and valves, and replaced the head gaskets. Everything is working inside. The engine will not run unless pressure is relieved by removing a spark plug. What could be causing this pressure problem. (exhaust plug?) Thanks, need some help on this one.
Unfortunately you are getting into the more in-depth details of the operation of an A4. When you checked the valves you might have spun the motor by hand to see all of the valves lifting up and going back down. Some times the vprings go & the back dow part does not happen. Also some times the seats for the valves can be come pitted & need to be lapped. However in your case it seems that the exhaust is not allowing decompression correct? If this is the case then review the exhaust manifold & the exhaust pipe. Check to be sure you are not getting water in the oil as well (white oil). These are signs of blockage within the block.Sounds like the exhaust outlest for the block may be getting clogged. check that out. but you may need to pull the exhaust maifold to do that.
Funny but sometimes the simplest problem has the most complicated cure & sometimes the reverse.
CALL Don Moyer and ask for advice. Don is pretty free with advice (if the problem is not toooooo involved - to keep thiese noble old engines running. You can get his phone number from his website at www.moyermarine.com
Usually a hugh mismatch in compression values between cylinders are not a problem... as an A4 can run with only two cylinders firing. Do call Don. Also consider strongly to get Don''s "Atomic-4, maintenance, repair and rebuild manual" ... the BEST investment you can make to keep your engine in tip-top shape and purrrrrring.
Success is at hand.
We pulled the exhaust this weekend, and last night cut off the top of the water lift muffler. Carbon floating stuff at the top of the water lift has turned into a sold rock formation between the internal exhaust pipe and the side of the muffler. Just have to get this thing cleaned out, installed and halleluja, hallejula, hallejula, we will be sailing again.
I have had similar problems on mine and the problem has been that the choke cable sheath has come adrift at the control panel leaving the choke full on even though I have pushed the knob all the way in. I sure hope the problem is that simple after all you''ve gone through.
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