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  #11  
Old 06-20-2007
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Hey Sailaway 21, I noticed the comment worthy of Homer Simpson at the bottom of your post - "America-Saving Europe's Ass Since 1917".
So that's what you call it ?
Let's see now....a huge nation......rich in natural resources.....very economically secure.....sits on it's ass for years....watching a psychotic dictator murder his way across Europe....all the while sitting on the fence and pontificating about whether or not it's any of it's business (never stopped you in Vietnam, Iraq etc) and then after years of bitter fighting by which time even the lunatic dictator is starting to think he has bitten off more than he can chew.........it bravely comes swaggering to the rescue.
52 million people died in WW2 alone. Imagine how much suffering could have been spared if you had gotten of your lazy fat asses sooner !
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2007
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Clayjay-

Your post is way off-topic... if you have a beef with Sailaway21's signature, raise it your own thread in the off-topic forum.

The Europeans often treat the USA as an outsider...so why should we involve ourselves in an internal European conflict, unless is starts to directly affect us??? WWI was a purely European problem initially... wasn't our turf, wasn't our war. Last I checked, there was no psychotic dictator murdering his way across Europe in WWI. That came much later... in WWII...

WWII was a war that had two components to it... an imperialist Japanese emperor who thought he had the divine right to rule most of Asia, which wasn't a problem until they came along and bombed the neutral US at Pearl Harbor. We've never taken kindly to backstabbers. The other problem was a maniac named Hitler, but was primarily a European problem until everyone but the Brits fell on their faces.

BTW, last I checked, the US also went in and helped pull most of Western Europe and Japan out of the toilet financially and helped re-build those countries following WWII without so much as a thank you for the most part.

Finally, when the US did get off its fat lazy ass and go in to try and stop Saddam Hussein, even as misguided as it was to do so, where the hell was the rest of the world outside of the Brits??? You can't have it both ways... either the US is the policeman of the world and is supposed to step in, or it isn't and shouldn't step in unless it is involved...

I also, notice you don't say where you are from... I'm an American and damn proud of it, even if I think GWB is a complete idiot...so piss off.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 06-20-2007 at 08:34 AM.
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  #13  
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Well actually I am a Brit living in Australia. Not that that has anything to do with anything.
Thats the trouble with America you see, you are so insular. If it isn't going on in America then it isn't news. Have you heard the Princess of Wales is dead yet ??
And speaking of that good 'ol boy Saddam......where the hell where you when he was gassing the kurds....oh sorry, that was before there was oil (read MONEY) involved.
Hitler and the Nazis were always going to be a WORLD problem.

What did that retard that runs your country have to say about climate change - "I won't sign anything that takes jobs away from Americans". Great !
The whole planet suffers..........but at least the ceptics have jobs !

I'm so glad to hear you are DAMN proud to be American SD.....someone's gotta be I guess.

HAVE A NICE DAY !!!!
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  #14  
Old 06-20-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clayjay
Hey Sailaway 21, I noticed the comment worthy of Homer Simpson at the bottom of your post - "America-Saving Europe's Ass Since 1917".
So that's what you call it ?
Let's see now....a huge nation......rich in natural resources.....very economically secure.....sits on it's ass for years....watching a psychotic dictator murder his way across Europe....all the while sitting on the fence and pontificating about whether or not it's any of it's business (never stopped you in Vietnam, Iraq etc) and then after years of bitter fighting by which time even the lunatic dictator is starting to think he has bitten off more than he can chew.........it bravely comes swaggering to the rescue.
52 million people died in WW2 alone. Imagine how much suffering could have been spared if you had gotten of your lazy fat asses sooner !
YOU ARE OUT OF ORDER BIG TIME. This is not the forum for venting your spleen, and I for one found the tone of your post to be offencive.

Quote "Well actually I am a Brit living in Australia." Quote. Well that explains it .
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Last edited by SimonV; 06-20-2007 at 09:23 AM.
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  #15  
Old 06-20-2007
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SD, and your post was not off-topic? :-)

Jordan Series drogue is on a shortlist of thinks I would like to install on my boat when I get her out of slavery (my poor beauty have to work as charter boat for another 2 years).
So, I am very interested to hear about the recovery issues.

My boat have a spade rudder and I think sea anchor (from the bow) may make it brake easier in bad storm.
The drogue (from the the stern) is (I hope) easier on my rudder as the boat moves forward and not backward.
Yes I know some would say that with a sea anchor it does not move at all, but if you put the waves and rode slack into the equation - you can expect significant forward/backward movements.

My idea of recovery (I read all I could about JSD about a year ago) is this:
After the wind is not that bad I could us the engine in reverse to stop the boat and try to recover the drogue with the help of a winch.
There are two main dangers I see:
1) reversing too much and get the drogue in the prop (ouch),
2) the cones would tangle into the winch and create a mess.
As a last resort I was thinking of using two shorter ropes:
1) attach one rope to the drogue and winch until the drogue is close to the winch on coach roof.
2) attach the other rope to drogue as far back as reachable and winch it to the other winch,
3) release the first rope . .
4) repeat the process (perhaps 20 or more times).
But this is all theory. I never saw JSD in real life. And I never tried to recover anything heavy on open ocean after a heavy storm - I guess the waves should be still quite big - so comments are welcome.
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  #16  
Old 06-20-2007
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I get the general sense that you can use the waves themselves to haul it in gradually, because at some points the cones and line closest to the stern will be slack, at which point you can haul in a few feet and cleat off.

But I can't see this being a fast job.
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  #17  
Old 06-20-2007
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It isn't a fast job... it isn't all that complicated either... Tomaz's idea of using two lines works fairly well, as that is what I did... rolling hitch to the drogue and haul it in until the line is too short... then do it with a second line and alternate. The line I used is a bit longer, and I actually run it forward to a block at the base of the mast and then back to the drogue... that way I can haul in a longer section of drogue between rolling hitches.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #18  
Old 06-20-2007
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A tripping line for a JSD would be good, but if deployed with the drogue, it might twist around it and close the cones and no longer work as a tripping line.
So how about deploying a tripping line when you want to bring the drogue back on board? How? - The same way as with a stuck anchor. A loop of chain on the end of a long rope with a small parachute drogue (or bucket or maybe a fender) attached to the loop. The idea being to let the boat's forward motion carry the bucket and the chain loop back down the JSD until it reaches the end. Ooops! A grappling iron needs to be on the end of the JSD to catch the chain loop. When it does, haul in the tripping line.
Might it work? Or would it simply snare on the cones? Maybe a ring or funnel would be better at reaching the end sooner than a chain loop.
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Old 06-20-2007
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Idiens-

It would probably damage the JSD far more than anything else. The cones are numerous and fairly small, and made of relatively lightweight materials.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #20  
Old 06-20-2007
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Tripping line:
My first idea when I saw the JSD was to install a tripping line inside the cones and only attach it firm at the end - near at the chain . This way the cones would collapse and pile on top of each other. so they would not provide the usual resistance.
But the arrangement would need stronger rings or something at the cone point.
I am also not sure of it would not tangle during use anyway, so I gave up the idea until I actually see how it all looks and make some tests.
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Last edited by tomaz_423; 06-20-2007 at 05:43 PM.
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