Toe rail: Replace existing mahogany, or go with aluminum? - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #21  
Old 02-26-2011
chrisncate's Avatar
Taco Whisperer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,906
Thanks: 18
Thanked 33 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 5
chrisncate is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
I do think heat would be a bad idea... it won't do the anodizing any good and may cause severe discolouration. As I indicated before, attaching one end and applying pressure with some friends as you drill/bolt your way along should do it.. but you'll need some space/clearance alongside as you deal with the exit angle and the sheer changes while you bend.
Makes total sense, thanks. I hate to be such a noob when it comes to all these things I have to tackle for the first time. I have read a lot on all the projects I need to get done, but being able to discus it with you guys gives me the kind of insight that really helps me understand a lot of what I have read. Thanks

Next question: How do I bed using butyl tape while installing a metal rail like we are talking about? Specifically, should I make the bend, but leave the rail "up" two or three inches with the bolts going through the rail and deck, and place the tape all at once under the rail then tighten it down?

Should I make the bend, and then remove the rail completely to place the tape, then re install the rail at that point?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 02-26-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Makes total sense, thanks. I hate to be such a noob when it comes to all these things I have to tackle for the first time. I have read a lot on all the projects I need to get done, but being able to discus it with you guys gives me the kind of insight that really helps me understand a lot of what I have read. Thanks

Next question: How do I bed using butyl tape while installing a metal rail like we are talking about? Specifically, should I make the bend, but leave the rail "up" two or three inches with the bolts going through the rail and deck, and place the tape all at once under the rail then tighten it down?

Should I make the bend, and then remove the rail completely to place the tape, then re install the rail at that point?
You'll probably want to apply the butyl tape on the bottom of the rail but leave the backing paper on it until you're ready to bolt it down. Remove the backing paper three-to-six feet at a time, depending on how close the bolts are and how much the rail has to bend. That will help prevent you from getting butyl tape over everything. Make sure you get the grey or white butyl tape, not the black. The black can make a serious mess and is much harder to clean up after.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 02-26-2011
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,616
Thanks: 4
Thanked 92 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
No heat needed.
Chris,
As the owner of a 27' boat with a teak toe rail/cap rail I can confess that I would love to install the aluminum toe rail you propose. Sure the wood looks good when it is maintained but it is nearly useless without installing padeyes/Beckets and what not as there is no way to attach a boom preventer or moving blocks to it. The aluminum rail is so much more useful that aesthetic concerns are overruled in my book. The problem I have is that our hull/deck joint on our Tartan 27' is flanged outward and there is no easy solution for me but maybe much easier for your boat.
For the record I have replaced several pieces of teak toe rail on our boat and have been lucky enough to find some pieces of 'rippings' of teak that only cost $5/board ft. instead of the $20+/bd. ft. it normally costs. And yes, longer pieces are better. You might also be surprised how easy it is to bend a flat extrusion like this (or a piece of wood) to the shape of a typical sailboat hull.
If you miss the aesthetic of the wooden toe rail you could add a stripe that follows the lines just below the new rail and mimics the 'old' look.
Best o' luck with this.
Do it right and do it once.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 02-26-2011
chrisncate's Avatar
Taco Whisperer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,906
Thanks: 18
Thanked 33 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 5
chrisncate is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
No heat needed.
Chris,
As the owner of a 27' boat with a teak toe rail/cap rail I can confess that I would love to install the aluminum toe rail you propose. Sure the wood looks good when it is maintained but it is nearly useless without installing padeyes/Beckets and what not as there is no way to attach a boom preventer or moving blocks to it. The aluminum rail is so much more useful that aesthetic concerns are overruled in my book. The problem I have is that our hull/deck joint on our Tartan 27' is flanged outward and there is no easy solution for me but maybe much easier for your boat.
For the record I have replaced several pieces of teak toe rail on our boat and have been lucky enough to find some pieces of 'rippings' of teak that only cost $5/board ft. instead of the $20+/bd. ft. it normally costs. And yes, longer pieces are better. You might also be surprised how easy it is to bend a flat extrusion like this (or a piece of wood) to the shape of a typical sailboat hull.
If you miss the aesthetic of the wooden toe rail you could add a stripe that follows the lines just below the new rail and mimics the 'old' look.
Best o' luck with this.
Do it right and do it once.
Good idea, if I do wind up with the aluminum one (and it looks like I will), I am going to really try to do whatever I can to keep a traditional look to her. The stripe is a great idea, thanks.

So you seem to think it will bend fairly easy? I really hope so. When you think about it, and consider the lines of my boat, it does seem like it will work out pretty good (the bend I mean).

sailingdog:
Quote:
You'll probably want to apply the butyl tape on the bottom of the rail but leave the backing paper on it until you're ready to bolt it down. Remove the backing paper three-to-six feet at a time, depending on how close the bolts are and how much the rail has to bend. That will help prevent you from getting butyl tape over everything. Make sure you get the grey or white butyl tape, not the black. The black can make a serious mess and is much harder to clean up after.
Makes sense, do you think I should bend the rail and "fit" it, then remove it completely to apply the tape to the bottom of the rail, then reinstall the rail?

Or try to leave the rail on but loose and apply the tape with the bolts thru the rail but not bolted down and with a couple inch clearance height..

?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 02-26-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Good idea, if I do wind up with the aluminum one (and it looks like I will), I am going to really try to do whatever I can to keep a traditional look to her. The stripe is a great idea, thanks.

So you seem to think it will bend fairly easy? I really hope so. When you think about it, and consider the lines of my boat, it does seem like it will work out pretty good (the bend I mean).
It should bend pretty easily... you'll probably be surprised.

Quote:
sailingdog:

Makes sense, do you think I should bend the rail and "fit" it, then remove it completely to apply the tape to the bottom of the rail, then reinstall the rail?

Or try to leave the rail on but loose and apply the tape with the bolts thru the rail but not bolted down and with a couple inch clearance height..

?
No, bend and bed it all in one step. The rail is likely flexible enough to fit and probably won't "set" in the bend that fits the boat. You should be able to apply the tape to the rail and then remove the backing paper as you're moving along and bolting it into place. Don't forget to put a "cone" of it around the head of each screw. A drinking straw is probably the easiest way to cut the holes for the bolts/screws to go through.

A cordless impact driver is going to be a really good thing to have along while doing this. It will be invaluable for removing the old toe rail and almost as useful for installing the new one.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 02-26-2011
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 15,323
Thanks: 88
Thanked 242 Times in 233 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Makes sense, do you think I should bend the rail and "fit" it, then remove it completely to apply the tape to the bottom of the rail, then reinstall the rail?

Or try to leave the rail on but loose and apply the tape with the bolts thru the rail but not bolted down and with a couple inch clearance height..

?
You're going to have to use the hull/deck edge as a form to bend it.. and if you dry mount it and try again, it will likely spring back quite a bit and need coaxing back into shape again anyway (less, but still some)

I'm trying to picture the whole project, thinking of bedding not only the deck edge, but also the sideof the 'corner' under the lower half of the "T", all while having to force the rail in place.. Wondering if a spreadable bedding compoud would work out better, esp if you can pre-mask the edges (and the rail) to make cleanup easier down the road.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 02-26-2011
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,282
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
You could use butyl on the deck section and Sika Flex 291 or similar on the hull section, masking below a predetermined line as posted by Faster. All the holes in the deck should be countersunk to create an "O" ring around each one as well.

As far as looks, I think you can get black anodized rail as well as silver. Might look better with the blue hull.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 02-26-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
You're going to have to use the hull/deck edge as a form to bend it.. and if you dry mount it and try again, it will likely spring back quite a bit and need coaxing back into shape again anyway (less, but still some)
Exactly my point.

Quote:
I'm trying to picture the whole project, thinking of bedding not only the deck edge, but also the sideof the 'corner' under the lower half of the "T", all while having to force the rail in place.. Wondering if a spreadable bedding compoud would work out better, esp if you can pre-mask the edges (and the rail) to make cleanup easier down the road.
No, butyl tape tends to be perfect for something like this since it doesn't actually cure, so you don't have a time limit to working with it. Cleaning up with butyl tape is pretty simple too, again because it doesn't actually cure, so it remains easy to clean up, even after a day or two, where a regular marine sealant or bedding compound has a very short working time in most cases.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 02-26-2011
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
You could use butyl on the deck section and Sika Flex 291 or similar on the hull section, masking below a predetermined line as posted by Faster. All the holes in the deck should be countersunk to create an "O" ring around each one as well.

As far as looks, I think you can get black anodized rail as well as silver. Might look better with the blue hull.
The one problem with the black anodized rail is that it tends to heat up a lot in the sun... more so than the silver, which reflects more of the sun and heats up less as a result.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 02-26-2011
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,282
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
The problem as I see it is forcing the rail close enough to the hull to compress the butyl as the bolts are all vertical. I think it would be easier with Sika Flex. An extra person with a cartridge gun staying just ahead of the bolters should work.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rebedding Mahogany Toe Rail & Rub Rail Finallybuyingaboat Gear & Maintenance 3 03-15-2009 10:28 AM
Aluminum toe rail shantijwk Gear & Maintenance 4 05-15-2007 12:49 PM
Dirty Rub Rail: Clean it or Replace it? ChicagoNewport27 Gear & Maintenance 6 04-28-2007 03:11 AM
refinishing aluminum rub rail shmangasarian Gear & Maintenance 1 01-13-2006 05:54 AM
Aluminum Rail DirtManly Gear & Maintenance 0 05-01-2001 06:17 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:30 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.