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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #11  
Old 03-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e37duff View Post
svHyLyte, what drive unit are you using? did you install?
We have a hydraulic drive with the ram connected to a post welded to a plate bolted to the outer edge of our quadrant. It's a very stocky installation that was done for the former owner of our yacht. We just have to lube the joints periodically but that's about all. It is very simple and a very reliable and powerful system compared with some of the others we've seen.

FWIW...
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  #12  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e37duff View Post
i have a 1978 endeavour 10 net tons. i have been looking at the lates stuff out there. simrad, b&g, garmin, ect. looking for pictures as to the mounting of the ram. simrad has come out with a drive unit called the dd15 but it is rated just shy at my 10.5 ton vessel wt.
thanks
Never specify an autopilot 'just shy' of the displacement weight of a boat, if cruising you will probably add another ton to this. Further, if you are over say 75% of the capacity of a particular drive system for a boat, specify the next size up. When using an autopilot it is easy to overlook balancing the sails. When manually steering the boat you can feel 'weather helm' due to unbalance sails etc. and you can make adjustments, the autopilot won't, it will try and keep you on course possibly overloading the capacity of the drive. Also consider that when in a quartering sea how much steering input is required to keep the boat on course, the autopilot also has to do this. This is the biggest cause of failures I see with wheel pilot drives even when specified correctly for the size of boat.

Other points to consider with the aforementioned. The mounting and geometry is very important to the performance and life expectancy of the drive. If you are lucky you will have a convenient surface to mount the static part of the drive to. If not a platform or shelf will have to constructed of sufficient strength to put the drive in alignment and to absorb the transferred load. Also do not consider attaching the drive/ram to the existing quatrant of steering system. You need to have an autopilot tiller arm mounted to the rudder stock either a custom manufactured on or one similar to those supplied by Edson. Beware, you may have to have the rudder stock machined for a 'woodruf key' with some arms. Keeping the drive separate from the existing system will allow you to manually steer the boat should the existing quadrant fail. ALso, if using a rudder feedback sensor you will also have make arrangements for mounting and connecting this.

I will reserve this post for the drive mechanics. This will be the most complicated part of the installation and unless you are proficient in this type of installation I suggest you seek assistancew from someone with experience.

Last edited by r.furborough; 03-23-2011 at 07:31 AM. Reason: added rudder feedback comment
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  #13  
Old 03-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haffiman37 View Post
The above unit looks rather similar to my Raymarine unit on my Jeanneau SO 37, but a bit more rusty!!!
Hey, what are you implying?????

Ilenart
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r.furborough View Post
Never specify an autopilot 'just shy' of the displacement weight of a boat, if cruising you will probably add another ton to this. Further, if you are over say 75% of the capacity of a particular drive system for a boat, specify the next size up.
I think this should emphasized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r.furborough View Post
When using an autopilot it is easy to overlook balancing the sails. When manually steering the boat you can feel 'weather helm' due to unbalance sails etc. and you can make adjustments, the autopilot won't, it will try and keep you on course possibly overloading the capacity of the drive.
In our case we balance the helm before enabling the auto pilot and whenever there is a wind shift. In fact, with the pilot steering, one has plenty of time to balace the sails even if only one person is standing watch.


Quote:
The mounting and geometry is very important to the performance and life expectancy of the drive. If you are lucky you will have a convenient surface to mount the static part of the drive to. If not a platform or shelf will have to constructed of sufficient strength to put the drive in alignment and to absorb the transferred load.
The majority of the system failures I have seen have either been with the electrics controlling the system or a failure of the drive mounting. This is certainly one case when bigger/stronger is better.

Quote:
Also do not consider attaching the drive/ram to the existing quatrant of steering system. You need to have an autopilot tiller arm mounted to the rudder stock either a custom manufactured on or one similar to those supplied by Edson.
I think this is case dependant. A separate tiller arm certainly has its merits but I think it can also be very problematic. Given its construction, I cannot imagine the quadrant on our yacht failing but we also have an exceptionally well built boat.

Quote:
I will reserve this post for the drive mechanics. This will be the most complicated part of the installation and unless you are proficient in this type of installation I suggest you seek assistancew from someone with experience.
On this I have to say that the hydraulic drive assembly on HyLyte is very robust and very simple:



FWIW...
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  #15  
Old 03-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haffiman37 View Post
The above unit looks rather similar to my Raymarine unit on my Jeanneau SO 37, but a bit more rusty!!!
I installed mine in 2003 an it has made about 20.000Nmiles without any problems.
I bolted it straight on the aft bulkhead in my STB aft cabin, goes directly onto the rudder quadrant. Controlled by a Raymarine 150G computer a perfect set-up.
could you post of a shot of your mounting? i am interested on various designs and might find one that could work for me.

was reading up about the new simrad stuff. they are putting out a new 'DD15" unit that is of a different design than the ram type. i feel reluctant to try an unproven drive unit and am leading toward the older ram style. what do you think?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r.furborough View Post
Never specify an autopilot 'just shy' of the displacement weight of a boat, if cruising you will probably add another ton to this. Further, if you are over say 75% of the capacity of a particular drive system for a boat, specify the next size up. When using an autopilot it is easy to overlook balancing the sails. When manually steering the boat you can feel 'weather helm' due to unbalance sails etc. and you can make adjustments, the autopilot won't, it will try and keep you on course possibly overloading the capacity of the drive. Also consider that when in a quartering sea how much steering input is required to keep the boat on course, the autopilot also has to do this. This is the biggest cause of failures I see with wheel pilot drives even when specified correctly for the size of boat.

Other points to consider with the aforementioned. The mounting and geometry is very important to the performance and life expectancy of the drive. If you are lucky you will have a convenient surface to mount the static part of the drive to. If not a platform or shelf will have to constructed of sufficient strength to put the drive in alignment and to absorb the transferred load. Also do not consider attaching the drive/ram to the existing quatrant of steering system. You need to have an autopilot tiller arm mounted to the rudder stock either a custom manufactured on or one similar to those supplied by Edson. Beware, you may have to have the rudder stock machined for a 'woodruf key' with some arms. Keeping the drive separate from the existing system will allow you to manually steer the boat should the existing quadrant fail. ALso, if using a rudder feedback sensor you will also have make arrangements for mounting and connecting this.

I will reserve this post for the drive mechanics. This will be the most complicated part of the installation and unless you are proficient in this type of installation I suggest you seek assistancew from someone with experience.
This is what im looking for. so edson may make a mount to attatch the ram to? i was kinda anticipating having to build som sort of shelf/mout surface for the ram. have you done this install? do you have any pictures?

thanks again
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On this I have to say that the hydraulic drive assembly on HyLyte is very robust and very simple:



FWIW...[/QUOTE]

hey this is the one im looking at too!

im trying to decifer which unit i'll need the long arm, the short arm? trying to build this thing from Alaska on a boat that is in Florida is difficult you know!
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This Beefy silver metal thingy1 is this what is needed to be fabricated to attatch the ram to?
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Originally Posted by e37duff View Post


This Beefy silver metal thingy1 is this what is needed to be fabricated to attatch the ram to?
aww man there i see it. so edson may make these or maybe even simard, otherwise i'll have to have it fabricated right?
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Yes edson do make the autopilot tiller arms, they make a 10" and 15", you have to browse their online catalog to find them hopefully this link will work
Edson K36 Marine Catalog
If not go to Edson Marine and browse their ecatalog to page 34, these are machined custom to your rudder post and they are expensive $500 to &600. It will probably be better to find a machine shop to make one for you, but read the catalog and refer to the yellow 'goto' information on these pages.
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