???to ditch wheel steering ??? - Page 5 - SailNet Community
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post #41 of 53 Old 03-30-2011
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Nice idea but cable systems don't like being disconnected. You'd have to rig extra sheeves and guides all the way so it didn't fall out at any point all the way back to the quadrant, and accomodate handling the slack when it dropped and inevitably tried to wrap and foul.

It might be simpler to totally convert the system into a "remote helm" with electronics and a servo on the rudder post, get rid of everything in between, and make it a "fly by wire" system like the aircraft have gone to.

Which brings to mind some old classic comedies where two guys are driving and the one says to the other, ok, so YOU take the wheel...(G)

Cost aside, that kind of engineering is all pretty much routine these days, just not in small boats.
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post #42 of 53 Old 04-13-2011
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I'm looking at this thread and can see generally committing massive amounts of not enough information to affect a choice.

I'm look at building a 36' ultra light cat. As it's folding, I'm looking at a wheel for 2 reasons. That is I can build transfer points on the folding pings so the steering stays constant through the folding operation. Well I'll go to 1 rudder just before folding as making the cross arm fold is just too much and really not needed. A 3hp electric motor out there would do more good at low speed than a second rudder.

The second reason is to put the wheel high enough to see over the cabin.

The tiller option is still there as the connection hardware to hold the rudders in sync still needs to be there but for in the marina the wheel would be nice.

Where do I go to find out what systems are simple to put in for a fair price with low friction.

On the 2:1 vs 1:1 well most boats in the performance class have really long tiller arms so they are in effect 2:1.

I've never owned a boat with a wheel however for this application I don't see how I can put a steerage station where I can see everything going on around me.

As I said who makes a good light weight unit that's dependable, and simple to maintain?
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post #43 of 53 Old 04-13-2011
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I guess a tiller makes sense in a pram or sunfish but it's really no fun in a cruiser. The wheel is desired and dominates the market for good reason - it's the best solution in larger sailboats.

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post #44 of 53 Old 04-13-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsContent View Post
I guess a tiller makes sense in a pram or sunfish but it's really no fun in a cruiser. The wheel is desired and dominates the market for good reason - it's the best solution in larger sailboats.
It really is more a mater of good design costs money vs a quick bolt on 1 size fits all method. I've put more than 20,000 knots under my F27 in the last 22 years so don't know if this qualifies as a cruiser but we've been out there done that. I've always liked tillers. Look at the postings where so many are wanting more power to make up for bad design. If the rudder isn't balanced fix. A stronger steering gear isn't the answer.

I need the wheel on the next boat as I need to stand up to see over the cabin. On open water looking through the boat should be good enough. In tight quarters however I want to actually see what I'm moving into and what's moving into me. Most cruising cats have exactly the same problem and tillers that aren't directly connected to the rudders are just wheels with a different connection point.

For me turning the wheel in the direction I want to go is pretty unnatural.
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post #45 of 53 Old 04-13-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turban10 View Post
I just love the Wheel. I know all the reasons why a tiller is better. Regardless, its hard to look like a salty seadog as you motor out of the marina with the landlubbers looking at you with a dinky little tiller in your hand.
Now a big wheel! THAT makes you feel like a pirate!
I have a tiller and steer with my feet when I motor out of the marina. That way I have two free hands. One to hold my beer and another to wave at the landlubbers.

Actually I would rather have a wheel, but seeing the additional cost, maintenace, things to break I am happy with a tiller. I am trying to make my boat as simple as possible. Less cost, less maintenace, less things to break, less things to fix, and more time to sail. Now maybe if I had more money and could contract out all the boat work- I would go with a wheel. I guess one benifit with a tiller you always know rudder position.

If you ever want to mount a wind vane or even an auto helm, tiller steering seems to work better. Also, I have a raytheon authelm. Very simple and works great with my tiller on a S&S 34. When not in use I remove the electric ram and put in cabin, takes 5 seconds.

Last edited by Faster; 04-13-2011 at 06:57 PM.
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post #46 of 53 Old 04-15-2011
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Until we started sailing our 1976 Islander 28, a couple of years ago, I had only sailed tiller steered boats. You can feel the 15' cat boat hunt for the wind on a close reach. A Giles 38 is a dream with a tiller in all conditions. Our Islander was originally fitted with a tiller. I have it. It is like new and quite nice. The wheel works well. The pedestal supports: engine controls, remote radio mic, a compass, chart plotter, folding table and drink holders. What a bunch of stuff! I miss sitting with the tiller and my wife. I may reinstall the tiller if I can find a set of engine controls, figure out where to put the chart plotter and mount a couple of compasses. Having the space in the cockpit would be nice, too.

Next year???

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post #47 of 53 Old 12-19-2013
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Re: ???to ditch wheel steering ???

I know this is an old post - but do you have any pictures of the wheel set-on on the Islander 28? I am a "new" owner of a 1976 Islander 28 with tiller steering. Very curious about the wheel steering.

If can send pics to rstackjd AT gmail DOT com I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

Bob

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Until we started sailing our 1976 Islander 28, a couple of years ago, I had only sailed tiller steered boats. You can feel the 15' cat boat hunt for the wind on a close reach. A Giles 38 is a dream with a tiller in all conditions. Our Islander was originally fitted with a tiller. I have it. It is like new and quite nice. The wheel works well. The pedestal supports: engine controls, remote radio mic, a compass, chart plotter, folding table and drink holders. What a bunch of stuff! I miss sitting with the tiller and my wife. I may reinstall the tiller if I can find a set of engine controls, figure out where to put the chart plotter and mount a couple of compasses. Having the space in the cockpit would be nice, too.

Next year???

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post #48 of 53 Old 12-19-2013
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Re: ???to ditch wheel steering ???

Heres a good shot of one with a wheel: Check out the photos in the listing.

1985 Islander 28 sailboat for sale in Oregon

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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post #49 of 53 Old 12-19-2013
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Re: ???to ditch wheel steering ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldrifter View Post
so i recently bought a 1970 bristol 30 that currently has edson wheel steering the type running cables and chains from the wheel to a quadrent i think is the correct word on the rutter post that is still exposed in the cockpit for use with emergency tiller. Just thiking I have never owned a wheel steer boat and it sure seems like a lot of points of failor compared to a tiller. I have new teak decking to go down with if i remove it. I question auto pilots I know that they are cheaper for a tiller boat, but are they as accurate and effecent as awheel pilot??? and its a nice piece of hardware it will be tough to pull it out kind of like taking the A/C out of your car to save gas any thought on the matter would be nice
True that there are more points of potential failure but why not give it a chance and see if you can make friends with it. Frequent inspection and proper maintenance will reduce failure probability.
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post #50 of 53 Old 12-19-2013
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Re: ???to ditch wheel steering ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldrifter View Post
so i recently bought a 1970 bristol 30 that currently has edson wheel steering the type running cables and chains from the wheel to a quadrent i think is the correct word on the rutter post that is still exposed in the cockpit for use with emergency tiller. Just thiking I have never owned a wheel steer boat and it sure seems like a lot of points of failor compared to a tiller. I have new teak decking to go down with if i remove it. I question auto pilots I know that they are cheaper for a tiller boat, but are they as accurate and effecent as awheel pilot??? and its a nice piece of hardware it will be tough to pull it out kind of like taking the A/C out of your car to save gas any thought on the matter would be nice
Your going to put teak decking on a 40 year old boat and question the reliability of the steering which is that old also?

Me thinks priorities could be a little mixed up... jus sayin..

Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club.
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