Delta vs Mansion supreme anchor - Page 2 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Gear & Maintenance
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  #11  
Old 04-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treilley View Post
I would pick the Manson for many reasons but the real difference is its ability to grab the bottom. The delta plows the bottom which opens up the surface of the bottom. The Manson Supreme and Rocna both compress the surface which translates into better holding power.

Imagine a "V" shaped snow plow. It pushes snow to the sides. Now redesign that plow into a "U" shape with the open end in front. That plow will not go far.

And I am on 2 forums that Craig will frequent and have never seen him get obnoxious. Regardless, he produces a great anchor.
With all due respect, I don't think these plausibly-sounding analogies (snow plow) make a lot of sense. Just one example: the snow plow rests on a hard surface when you pull it, the anchor does not (except when there is a layer of rock under it, in which case it becomes a question of rolling your dice with any anchor). All anchors are designed to bury INTO the substrate, not slide on it, which is exactly the opposite of a snow plow, you definitely don't want to bury that into the road.

I have seen a Delta anchor completely buried deep into the sand, only the chain sticking out, after a few days of storm. I am sure that a Manson (Bugel, Wasi, Spade, ..., even a Rocna) would do the same, this is where an anchor gets the serious holding power. In this situation, the question is which one gets buried faster and deeper, and I don't think we can answer this by arm chair anchoring.

Oh, and Craig never "produced" anything (other than hot air, and that one foul-smelling). If you look at the AS link I posted, you will seen that his so-called affiliation with Rocna was very tenuous at best, and that the company does its utmost to make that clear.

Last edited by MastUndSchotbruch; 04-11-2011 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Added comment about Craig
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Old 04-11-2011
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Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
I own a Rocna and a Manson Supreme and have also owned a Delta. My vote hands down is to buy the Manson Supreme... It has Lloyds SHHP certifications, is not outsourced to China, and is still manufactured in NZ oh and yes it still costs less than a similar anchor made in China, go figure..

Craig Smith is obnoxious and has proven to be very misleading. The anchor though, Rocna, suffers from none of Craig's issues and it is one hell of an anchor. But not worth a penny more than a Manson, and ideally, based on country of origin/manufacture, should cost LESS not more..

I once wrongly believed the Rocna was the better built/put together anchor than the Manson Supreme but I now have serious doubt that it is, what with all the intentional lies and deceit put forth by Craig & Rocna who knows what to believe..

For those who have read Craig's posts on any of the Sailboatowners.com web sites please keep in mind that we keep those forums "family friendly" and have had to edit many of Craig's posts. What you have read there is moderated Craig Smith so as not to start gun fights.

Here's a sampling of some of Criag's postings and why many find him to be so obnoxious.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 04-11-2011 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 04-11-2011
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I have a 35 lb CQR and set the anchor in 25 feet of water. Then dove on it to see what it looked like. The anchor was lying on its side. I righted it so it would dig into the sand and it did (I dove on it later in the day and it was set). If I had just left it on its side would it have righted itself and dug in, or just stay in that postion and drag?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastUndSchotbruch View Post
I don't think we can answer this by arm chair anchoring.
My arm chair is anchored tonight, as it is most nights, with a big Rocna. Expecting a some strong wind in the early hous of the morning, so perhaps arm chair anchoring can provide some worthwhile data points.
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Old 04-11-2011
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With all due respect to all the other anchor designs, for every one has a strong opinion of his respective choice, please allow me to give a testament to actual experience:
My 4,000 lb. Cape Dory 25 had a 3 way 120 degree anchor mooring in soft mud in the Broadkill river. We had a blow which the Weather service gave 35 knots, gusting to 49 knots. Tidal current swapped the 14 mile up stream marina. My 2 way 1/2" nylon painter chafed so badly as to cause me to discard them after the storm. The anchors held, while there was destruction all around.
What anchors?
(3) 22# Deltas, recommended for 25' - 41'

Dick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I have a 35 lb CQR and set the anchor in 25 feet of water. Then dove on it to see what it looked like. The anchor was lying on its side. I righted it so it would dig into the sand and it did (I dove on it later in the day and it was set). If I had just left it on its side would it have righted itself and dug in, or just stay in that postion and drag?
The CQR can be difficult to set on occasions. Its stars off on its side and as it buries it rotates so the shank becomes upright.
If you dive on it digging the tip in sometimes helps, but putting it upright to begin with doesn’t seem to improve the set.
Always reverse on your anchor if it will not hold full cruising revs it wll not cope with any wind.
Sometimes the CQR needs multiple tries to get it to hold.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex77 View Post
The CQR can be difficult to set on occasions. Its stars off on its side and as it buries it rotates so the shank becomes upright.
If you dive on it digging the tip in sometimes helps, but putting it upright to begin with doesn’t seem to improve the set.
Always reverse on your anchor if it will not hold full cruising revs it wll not cope with any wind.
Sometimes the CQR needs multiple tries to get it to hold.
Roger that,
I just bought a 35 lb Delta as a spare anchor. Reading above maybe I should return it and get a 25 lb Mason Supreme. What do you think? Where are the Delta's made?
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I'm thinking that anybody who does see the dreaded Mr Smith Jr as having behaved in less than a gentlemanly manner is kidding themselves. I've always thought that perhaps he was simply overly passionate about the product and this may well be true but he does have a less than appealing manner when it comes to communicating that passion.

For the first four years we owned the Womboat we had a 27lb CQR on 35m chain. Once in a rather nasty squall that gusted to 40 knots and blew consistently plus 30 for half an hour or so we dragged about 15' then held. In sand with 20 odd knots the CQR was useless and that is why when we changed, we decided to try Rocna. Thus far no serious complaints. We have dragged in around 30knts gusting but I only had 3:1 max out and no snubber. The chop was quite severe and I suspect that it is more the fault of the lack of scope and snubber that caused the problem.

If I was to have a backup I'd get a Fortress instead of our current #2 which is another CQR.
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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
I'm thinking that anybody who does see the dreaded Mr Smith Jr as having behaved in less than a gentlemanly manner is kidding themselves. I've always thought that perhaps he was simply overly passionate about the product and this may well be true but he does have a less than appealing manner when it comes to communicating that passion.

For the first four years we owned the Womboat we had a 27lb CQR on 35m chain. Once in a rather nasty squall that gusted to 40 knots and blew consistently plus 30 for half an hour or so we dragged about 15' then held. In sand with 20 odd knots the CQR was useless and that is why when we changed, we decided to try Rocna. Thus far no serious complaints. We have dragged in around 30knts gusting but I only had 3:1 max out and no snubber. The chop was quite severe and I suspect that it is more the fault of the lack of scope and snubber that caused the problem.

If I was to have a backup I'd get a Fortress instead of our current #2 which is another CQR.
Don't quite understand, the 27 lb CQR holding 40 knots, what were you anchored in? Seems like it was holding well, then you say the CQR could not hold in 20 knots?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Don't quite understand, the 27 lb CQR holding 40 knots, what were you anchored in? Seems like it was holding well, then you say the CQR could not hold in 20 knots?

In the first instance we were anchored in mud. Had been there for a couple of days in a cove where prevailing wind meant excellent protection. An unexpected change came through leaving us quite exposed and bow on to some serious waves (white water). Gusts were out to 40knts. In those conditions when calm prevailed after half an hour or so we had moved back by 15'. I say this in praise of the CQR. Really I was quite amazed at how well it held.

In the later instance we were over sand. Completely different locality, couple of hundred nms away. We'd anchored over clear sand and nothing I did could convince the CQR to hold. It simply refused to stay put.

Our CQR was old and needed replacing. In light of its failure to hold in sand, in a area I want to revisit we decided to give Rocna a go. IMHO Manson Supreme would be just as good and I'm also feeling good about Fortress though they are expensive.
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