Delta vs Mansion supreme anchor - Page 2 - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 833
Thanks: 47
Thanked 24 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by treilley View Post
I would pick the Manson for many reasons but the real difference is its ability to grab the bottom. The delta plows the bottom which opens up the surface of the bottom. The Manson Supreme and Rocna both compress the surface which translates into better holding power.

Imagine a "V" shaped snow plow. It pushes snow to the sides. Now redesign that plow into a "U" shape with the open end in front. That plow will not go far.

And I am on 2 forums that Craig will frequent and have never seen him get obnoxious. Regardless, he produces a great anchor.
With all due respect, I don't think these plausibly-sounding analogies (snow plow) make a lot of sense. Just one example: the snow plow rests on a hard surface when you pull it, the anchor does not (except when there is a layer of rock under it, in which case it becomes a question of rolling your dice with any anchor). All anchors are designed to bury INTO the substrate, not slide on it, which is exactly the opposite of a snow plow, you definitely don't want to bury that into the road.

I have seen a Delta anchor completely buried deep into the sand, only the chain sticking out, after a few days of storm. I am sure that a Manson (Bugel, Wasi, Spade, ..., even a Rocna) would do the same, this is where an anchor gets the serious holding power. In this situation, the question is which one gets buried faster and deeper, and I don't think we can answer this by arm chair anchoring.

Oh, and Craig never "produced" anything (other than hot air, and that one foul-smelling). If you look at the AS link I posted, you will seen that his so-called affiliation with Rocna was very tenuous at best, and that the company does its utmost to make that clear.

Last edited by MastUndSchotbruch; 04-11-2011 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Added comment about Craig
MastUndSchotbruch is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 6,105
Thanks: 20
Thanked 270 Times in 207 Posts
Rep Power: 17
       
I own a Rocna and a Manson Supreme and have also owned a Delta. My vote hands down is to buy the Manson Supreme... It has Lloyds SHHP certifications, is not outsourced to China, and is still manufactured in NZ oh and yes it still costs less than a similar anchor made in China, go figure..

Craig Smith is obnoxious and has proven to be very misleading. The anchor though, Rocna, suffers from none of Craig's issues and it is one hell of an anchor. But not worth a penny more than a Manson, and ideally, based on country of origin/manufacture, should cost LESS not more..

I once wrongly believed the Rocna was the better built/put together anchor than the Manson Supreme but I now have serious doubt that it is, what with all the intentional lies and deceit put forth by Craig & Rocna who knows what to believe..

For those who have read Craig's posts on any of the Sailboatowners.com web sites please keep in mind that we keep those forums "family friendly" and have had to edit many of Craig's posts. What you have read there is moderated Craig Smith so as not to start gun fights.

Here's a sampling of some of Criag's postings and why many find him to be so obnoxious.

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 04-11-2011 at 06:32 PM.
Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #13 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
Senior Member
 
casey1999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 3,508
Thanks: 21
Thanked 50 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
I have a 35 lb CQR and set the anchor in 25 feet of water. Then dove on it to see what it looked like. The anchor was lying on its side. I righted it so it would dig into the sand and it did (I dove on it later in the day and it was set). If I had just left it on its side would it have righted itself and dug in, or just stay in that postion and drag?
casey1999 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #14 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 472
Thanks: 14
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastUndSchotbruch View Post
I don't think we can answer this by arm chair anchoring.
My arm chair is anchored tonight, as it is most nights, with a big Rocna. Expecting a some strong wind in the early hous of the morning, so perhaps arm chair anchoring can provide some worthwhile data points.
noelex77 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #15 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Milton, DE
Posts: 592
Thanks: 2
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
With all due respect to all the other anchor designs, for every one has a strong opinion of his respective choice, please allow me to give a testament to actual experience:
My 4,000 lb. Cape Dory 25 had a 3 way 120 degree anchor mooring in soft mud in the Broadkill river. We had a blow which the Weather service gave 35 knots, gusting to 49 knots. Tidal current swapped the 14 mile up stream marina. My 2 way 1/2" nylon painter chafed so badly as to cause me to discard them after the storm. The anchors held, while there was destruction all around.
What anchors?
(3) 22# Deltas, recommended for 25' - 41'

Dick
Flybyknight is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #16 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 472
Thanks: 14
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I have a 35 lb CQR and set the anchor in 25 feet of water. Then dove on it to see what it looked like. The anchor was lying on its side. I righted it so it would dig into the sand and it did (I dove on it later in the day and it was set). If I had just left it on its side would it have righted itself and dug in, or just stay in that postion and drag?
The CQR can be difficult to set on occasions. Its stars off on its side and as it buries it rotates so the shank becomes upright.
If you dive on it digging the tip in sometimes helps, but putting it upright to begin with doesn’t seem to improve the set.
Always reverse on your anchor if it will not hold full cruising revs it wll not cope with any wind.
Sometimes the CQR needs multiple tries to get it to hold.
noelex77 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #17 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
Senior Member
 
casey1999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 3,508
Thanks: 21
Thanked 50 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex77 View Post
The CQR can be difficult to set on occasions. Its stars off on its side and as it buries it rotates so the shank becomes upright.
If you dive on it digging the tip in sometimes helps, but putting it upright to begin with doesn’t seem to improve the set.
Always reverse on your anchor if it will not hold full cruising revs it wll not cope with any wind.
Sometimes the CQR needs multiple tries to get it to hold.
Roger that,
I just bought a 35 lb Delta as a spare anchor. Reading above maybe I should return it and get a 25 lb Mason Supreme. What do you think? Where are the Delta's made?
casey1999 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #18 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
tdw
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
tdw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 16,943
Thanks: 20
Thanked 120 Times in 111 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
I'm thinking that anybody who does see the dreaded Mr Smith Jr as having behaved in less than a gentlemanly manner is kidding themselves. I've always thought that perhaps he was simply overly passionate about the product and this may well be true but he does have a less than appealing manner when it comes to communicating that passion.

For the first four years we owned the Womboat we had a 27lb CQR on 35m chain. Once in a rather nasty squall that gusted to 40 knots and blew consistently plus 30 for half an hour or so we dragged about 15' then held. In sand with 20 odd knots the CQR was useless and that is why when we changed, we decided to try Rocna. Thus far no serious complaints. We have dragged in around 30knts gusting but I only had 3:1 max out and no snubber. The chop was quite severe and I suspect that it is more the fault of the lack of scope and snubber that caused the problem.

If I was to have a backup I'd get a Fortress instead of our current #2 which is another CQR.

Andrew B (Malö 39 Classic)

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett.
tdw is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #19 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
Senior Member
 
casey1999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 3,508
Thanks: 21
Thanked 50 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
I'm thinking that anybody who does see the dreaded Mr Smith Jr as having behaved in less than a gentlemanly manner is kidding themselves. I've always thought that perhaps he was simply overly passionate about the product and this may well be true but he does have a less than appealing manner when it comes to communicating that passion.

For the first four years we owned the Womboat we had a 27lb CQR on 35m chain. Once in a rather nasty squall that gusted to 40 knots and blew consistently plus 30 for half an hour or so we dragged about 15' then held. In sand with 20 odd knots the CQR was useless and that is why when we changed, we decided to try Rocna. Thus far no serious complaints. We have dragged in around 30knts gusting but I only had 3:1 max out and no snubber. The chop was quite severe and I suspect that it is more the fault of the lack of scope and snubber that caused the problem.

If I was to have a backup I'd get a Fortress instead of our current #2 which is another CQR.
Don't quite understand, the 27 lb CQR holding 40 knots, what were you anchored in? Seems like it was holding well, then you say the CQR could not hold in 20 knots?
casey1999 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #20 of 62 Old 04-11-2011
tdw
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
tdw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 16,943
Thanks: 20
Thanked 120 Times in 111 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Don't quite understand, the 27 lb CQR holding 40 knots, what were you anchored in? Seems like it was holding well, then you say the CQR could not hold in 20 knots?

In the first instance we were anchored in mud. Had been there for a couple of days in a cove where prevailing wind meant excellent protection. An unexpected change came through leaving us quite exposed and bow on to some serious waves (white water). Gusts were out to 40knts. In those conditions when calm prevailed after half an hour or so we had moved back by 15'. I say this in praise of the CQR. Really I was quite amazed at how well it held.

In the later instance we were over sand. Completely different locality, couple of hundred nms away. We'd anchored over clear sand and nothing I did could convince the CQR to hold. It simply refused to stay put.

Our CQR was old and needed replacing. In light of its failure to hold in sand, in a area I want to revisit we decided to give Rocna a go. IMHO Manson Supreme would be just as good and I'm also feeling good about Fortress though they are expensive.

Andrew B (Malö 39 Classic)

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett.
tdw is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Manson Supreme Julie303 Gear & Maintenance 78 07-12-2014 05:17 AM
Delta anchor really self launching? danielgoldberg Gear & Maintenance 4 03-07-2010 11:33 AM
Whch anchor is better? Delta or Mushroom? labatt General Discussion (sailing related) 51 01-26-2007 01:51 PM
Delta Anchor nauticalrich General Discussion (sailing related) 11 10-07-2004 02:26 PM
Ca.delta M iso F for sail fun deltacstawy Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 0 02-16-2004 07:48 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome