Rocna crib notes

[Minnewaska]

I can't follow all the venom over Rocna and whoever Craig is. I've linked to threads that have over 400 posts on the subject. Geesh. I have a job, I can't read all that.

Can anyone explain, hopefully in 200 words or less, why, as a consumer, I care what is going on here?

It seems the Mason Supreme and Rocna are virtually the same product. They may have a problem with each other, but I'm asking about the consumer. I have read about the different construction methods, which are legit consumer issues. I'm asking why I should care about whatever else is going on. Could be a reason, I just don't know what it is.

[Pamlicotraveler]

It's Manson - Good point though. Someone could help summarize the issue for those ofus that can't follow these long threads all the time.

[smackdaddy]

From what I get - a lot of people across a lot of forums don't like Craig Smith (the inventor's son). He's not really affiliated with Rocna, apart from a licensing agreement from what I gather, but he's really opinionated about how good his dad's design is. And he doesn't think much of competitors' products and is perfectly willing to say so...which is pretty much what competition is all about IMUSO.

So, lots of guys argue with Craig on a lot of forums and he argues back...about pointy chunks of metal. Everyone gets their feelings hurt and things go nuclear on every forum out there. It's kind of like an episode of "Dynasty".

Add to this the fact that the Rocna website has apparently had/has some information on it that was confusing and incomplete, and/or allegedly misleading...and the torches and pitchforks have come out by those who think Craig's a troll.

There are some out there who, as is their usual way, feel the need to try to take the company down...or at least try to broker the PR game and play it for hits. And this is, of course, extremely dangerous for anyone to get into in many respects. But if you want to fuel the fire at the stake - there are other forums out there that will hand you the petrol. Thankfully SN ain't one of them (though it looks like some are trying to change that).

At the end of the day, for me, it's a damn pointy chunk of metal just like a lot of other pointy chunks of metal. Some of them just happen to be pointier or shinier.

The conclusion as far as I'm concerned: buy what works for you.

[SVAuspicious]

The Rocna anchor and the Manson Supreme anchor look a lot the same. Looking at Manson's complete product line of copies of CQR, Delta, Bruce, and other anchors it is a little hard to believe that they invented the Manson Supreme and Rocna copied it. Draw your own conclusions.

Since most of my career has involved being paid for creative work I tend to avoid products that seem to be a copy of someone else's work. Accordingly I don't buy Manson products. My choice. You make your own.

The only dog I have in this fight is that I've plunked down my own money for two good-sized Rocna anchors.

[eherlihy]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

From what I get - a lot of people across a lot of forums don't like Craig Smith (the inventor's son). He's not really affiliated with Rocna, apart from a licensing agreement from what I gather, but he's really opinionated about how good his dad's design is. And he doesn't think much of competitors' products and is perfectly willing to say so...which is pretty much what competition is all about IMUSO.

So, lots of guys argue with Craig on a lot of forums and he argues back...about pointy chunks of metal. Everyone gets their feelings hurt and things go nuclear on every forum out there. It's kind of like an episode of "Dynasty".

Add to this the fact that the Rocna website has apparently had/has some information on it that was confusing and incomplete, and/or allegedly misleading...and the torches and pitchforks have come out by those who think Craig's a troll.

There are some out there who, as is their usual way, feel the need to try to take the company down...or at least try to broker the PR game and play it for hits. And this is, of course, extremely dangerous for anyone to get into in many respects. But if you want to fuel the fire at the stake - there are other forums out there that will hand you the petrol. Thankfully SN ain't one of them (though it looks like some are trying to change that).

At the end of the day, for me, it's a damn pointy chunk of metal just like a lot of other pointy chunks of metal. Some of them just happen to be pointier or shinier.

The conclusion as far as I'm concerned: buy what works for you.

+2 for Smack!
Succinct and, IMHO, accurate.

The only other difference that I can discern is that a the Manson Supreme 35lb, which compares to the Rocna 15, is $16 CHEAPER at West Marine. The prices do fluctuate. (I could have saved $75 on the Rocna 15 that I bought back in November '10 if I had waited.)

[MastUndSchotbruch]

Originally Posted by SVAuspicious

The Rocna anchor and the Manson Supreme anchor look a lot the same. Looking at Manson's complete product line of copies of CQR, Delta, Bruce, and other anchors it is a little hard to believe that they invented the Manson Supreme and Rocna copied it. Draw your own conclusions.

Since most of my career has involved being paid for creative work I tend to avoid products that seem to be a copy of someone else's work. Accordingly I don't buy Manson products. My choice. You make your own.

The only dog I have in this fight is that I've plunked down my own money for two good-sized Rocna anchors.

I don't think anybody ever claimed that Rocna copied Manson. The Rocna design seems heavily inspired by the Bugel (AFAIK the first anchor with a roll bar) and the Spade. But then, all anchors are some kind of variation of some other.

Personally, i believe that there are some quite serious concerns about the ethical conduct of the Rocna company. What may be more important for the customer (at least those that are not concerned with the ethics of the manufacturers; this is your decision) is that there are allegations that the new Rocnas (those which are manufactured in China while the earlier ones came from NZ/Canada) are of inferior quality than the original ones. Specifically, the quality of the steel has been doubted and there are some indications that these claims are supported by the former production manager of Rocna. At this time, the allegations are unproven, it is claimed that tests are on the way.

Of note is further that Manson has asked Rocna publicly that both anchors should be tested on certified testing equipment and Rocna has so far ignored this challenge, although it has been reminded of it several times by various posters.

Finally, I believe that the Manson anchors are certified to SHHP standards. Rocna has claimed for years on their webpage that this is also true for their anchors but it now turns out (according to Steve Banbury, the CEO of Rocna) that this is not the case. Mr. Banbury says that certification is well underway but for reasons that he says he does not understand has not yet come to completion (contradicting what the webpage claimed for several years).

OK, was this too long for a summary?

(I own neither a Rocna nor a Manson and surely have no commercial interest in either company, nor in any marine-related entity other than the condo-marina where I keep my boat)

[smackdaddy]

Yeah, I've read all that elsewhere. They'll get it sorted out. Until then, it's just allegations and hysteria. It's great to point out misstatements, etc.- but it's gone quite a bit beyond that and things are getting dangerous...which some people love, of course.

What anchor do you own Mast? And, more importantly, what/where do you sail? That's far more fun to talk about than the pros and cons of Chinese steel.

[dabnis]

Originally Posted by Pamlicotraveler

It's Manson - Good point though. Someone could help summarize the issue for those ofus that can't follow these long threads all the time.

This is all from memory, but I think Rocna designed their
anchor and approached Manson with a licensing offer.
Manson declined and then shortly came out with the Manson
Supreme which, from pictures, is almost identical to
the Rocna design, the "slot" being about the only basic
difference. Looks like patent infringement to me?

Dabnis

[MastUndSchotbruch]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Yeah, I've read all that elsewhere. They'll get it sorted out. Until then, it's just allegations and hysteria. It's great to point out misstatements, etc.- but it's gone quite a bit beyond that and things are getting dangerous...which some people love, of course.

What anchor do you own Mast? And, more importantly, what/where do you sail? That's far more fun to talk about than the pros and cons of Chinese steel.

I agree, much of it is allegations (not all, though: I think by now it is established that Rocna claimed certification for years but the CEO confirmed that this is not correct).

And since when did YOU ever shy away from danger

But you are right, it is much more fun to talk about sailing than internet squabbles. Let's see, my anchor inventory is as follows:

bower: 35# Delta
stern: Fortress (I believe FX-16)
spare: 35# Claw
storm: 65# CQR clone
dinghy: tiny Danforth

Plus a small grapnel.

I sail the Chessie.

[PaulfromNWOnt]

Army intelligence
Honest Politician
Truth in advertising

Any surprises?

Some people thrive on drama, but I'm with Smacky: I'm going sailing (as soon as the ice clears )

For the record, where I sail I could likely get away with a rock on a rope, but use an El-Cheapo Danforth knockoff, or just tie off to a tree.

Full disclosure: I have no financial interest in rocks.