Anchor Wars - In Search of the Lost Truth. - Page 21 - SailNet Community
 9Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #201 of 215 Old 10-23-2011
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,214
Thanks: 21
Thanked 105 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
From: Craig Smith

"If you know a test is to be run it is best to provide the anchor (sponsor). This way you can provide a tuned anchor you know is correct in every aspect, especially the correct tip shape and sharpness which is critical for immediate good test results. A number of tuned 10s and 15s, as well as Stowables, should be kept in stock for these occasions.....

As to the German "test", the results are bizarre and their analysis not consistent with their own graph, but I can't provide any answers until I see the test anchor. However, we have told you repeatedly that the Chinese anchors that you are shipping are NOT to spec, and we have yet to see one that is acceptable. I assume the anchor that the Germans tested suffers from the same problems. It should not have been provided; rather, send them a tuned sample ex CNC."


http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/rocnatext.pdf
PCP is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #202 of 215 Old 10-23-2011
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,890
Thanks: 20
Thanked 223 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
From: Craig Smith

"If you know a test is to be run it is best to provide the anchor (sponsor). This way you can provide a tuned anchor you know is correct in every aspect, especially the correct tip shape and sharpness which is critical for immediate good test results. A number of tuned 10s and 15s, as well as Stowables, should be kept in stock for these occasions.....

As to the German "test", the results are bizarre and their analysis not consistent with their own graph, but I can't provide any answers until I see the test anchor. However, we have told you repeatedly that the Chinese anchors that you are shipping are NOT to spec, and we have yet to see one that is acceptable. I assume the anchor that the Germans tested suffers from the same problems. It should not have been provided; rather, send them a tuned sample ex CNC."


http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/rocnatext.pdf

It should be noted that this was an email from Peter Smith, not Craig, and from September 2009 WELL before the claimed "small number of anchors in 2010" that were below spec....


The plot and lies thicken..

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #203 of 215 Old 10-23-2011
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,214
Thanks: 21
Thanked 105 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Sorry, you are right about the email being from Peter Smith. I was mistake by this:

From: Craig Smith
Sent: Sunday, 20 September 2009 9:00 PM
To: Tanya Le Fleming Burrow; Steve Bambury
Cc: Grant King; kiwiroasmith@rocna.com
Subject: RE: Problems with Rocna?

Some more fire here:

"Unfortunately it's not the first poor showing for Rocna in recent times and you're probably familiar with the results of the tests performed in Australia comparing the Rocna with the new Excel from Sarca under the guidance of the NSW Maritime Safety association?

They made a straight shoot out between the two and the result was they ate us for breakfast and this has given the Aussie market a shake up to our detriment as the endorsement of Maritime Safety gives it a high credibility! Are we to assume that this testing is flawed also? Can we have some comments from Peter please?"


This seems to be from a Rocna dealer or a regional Rocna responsible.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-23-2011 at 04:23 PM.
PCP is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #204 of 215 Old 10-23-2011
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,578
Thanks: 153
Thanked 149 Times in 142 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Again, trying to be objective...we probably need to know more about the license/manufacture relationship between the Smiths and HoldFast before anyone says that Peter is "lying" to the public - at least regarding the out-of-spec anchors and the spec data on the website at the time.

The quote above regarding the weaker anchors is him telling HF that the anchors being manufactured/shipped at that time "are NOT to spec". That doesn't necessarily imply any complicity on the part of the Smiths. In fact it might be the opposite...him telling them to NOT manufacture/ship anymore anchors that are not to spec (which we now know that they did). Who knows? It all depends on his contractual power in that situation under the licensing agreement.

On the other hand, it DOES show that, as Maine points out, that the Smiths knew about this problem well before the timeline laid out in the most recent press release and WM notice. So, it's still bad.

If they want to save this company, the had sure better come clean on all of it.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #205 of 215 Old 10-23-2011
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,935
Thanks: 5
Thanked 99 Times in 87 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
A tuned anchor? WTF? A reliable test should start with a randomly chosen anchor from a regular chandelry.
CapitainMike likes this.

Back home on Lake Ontario after something over 36,000 nm circumnavigator. Not surprisingly there is a lot of stuff I want to get done on Ainia both cosmetically and functionally. Getting an early start so it will be ready to go for next summer (Lake Superior?).
killarney_sailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #206 of 215 Old 10-24-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 22
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
tuned

Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
A tuned anchor? WTF? A reliable test should start with a randomly chosen anchor from a regular chandelry.
Ah...but a tuned one sings a far better song.
marinextreme is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #207 of 215 Old 10-24-2011
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,578
Thanks: 153
Thanked 149 Times in 142 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by marinextreme View Post
Ah...but a tuned one sings a far better song.
Is this standard practice in the industry? In other words, do other manufacturers do the same for these tests?

As maine said above, it seems to me that the testing authority is the one that needs to insist on the terms. Otherwise, what's wrong with doing what you can to make sure the results are as good as they can be? If it's not against the rules, it's not against the rules.
CapitainMike likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #208 of 215 Old 11-28-2011
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,578
Thanks: 153
Thanked 149 Times in 142 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Holy crap! This whole Rocna thing just gets nastier and nastier. Now it looks like bribes were flying to try to get Rina certification:

Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific - Page 78 - Yachting and Boating World Forums

It seems there was no one clean in this whole debacle.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #209 of 215 Old 11-28-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 11,243
Thanks: 46
Thanked 241 Times in 225 Posts
Rep Power: 7
   
I can't follow how this implicates CMP.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #210 of 215 Old 11-28-2011
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,578
Thanks: 153
Thanked 149 Times in 142 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I can't follow how this implicates CMP.
It doesn't. But if Grant's comment about bribing RINA officials is accurate (e.g. - they accepted the money under the pretenses of providing certification), it certainly seems to implicate RINA.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
In Search of the Lost Thread tdw General Discussion (sailing related) 10 03-07-2007 11:02 PM
Search Continues For S.F. Scientist Lost At Sea (CBS 5 Bay Area) NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-01-2007 07:15 PM
Search for lost computer scientist nears end - CNN International NewsReader News Feeds 0 02-01-2007 08:15 AM
Star wars bar colehankins General Discussion (sailing related) 2 09-12-2003 05:41 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome