Anchor Wars - In Search of the Lost Truth. - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 215 Old 04-17-2011 Thread Starter
tdw
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Originally Posted by T34C View Post
TDW- In light of Craig's post stating that he benefits finically from the sale of Rocna anchors, and the fact that it appears he has been asked to remove is affiliation with Rocna from his signature by the company, does he have a duty to disclose his association? (Its been a while since I reviewed the rules of use here.)
You have to say that Craig is somewhat up against it here. On the one hand Rocna themselves have asked him not to claim "affiliation" , on the other he is supposed to acknowledge any commercial relationship.

Crikey, I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for the poor bugger.

rgds

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post #22 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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It may be that Graig still owns a lot of stock, but does not get a paycheck, hence the how he benefits, but is being asked to remove affiliation due to not working there.

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post #23 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Hey T! Welcome to SquirrelNet dude! Heh-heh.

So far it looks like the mods here have everything under control.
I couldn't remember how the rules here handled those kinds of disclosures. Also interested how they would handle it as I'm trying to figure out how to deal with it at AS. (If CS decides to make another appearance.) As TD- points out, CS seems to have gotten himself between a rock and a hard place.

As you point out, they have done a very good job of allowing this to keep rolling along without completely jumping the shark.

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post #24 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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Rocna Mis-representation

Unfortunately, Sailnet does not allow you to attach Excel files so I am unable to attach the spreadsheet that I received from Chuck Hawley of West Marine with the pull by pull results for each anchor at the three test locations.

If you would like to review this detailed spreadsheet, I would be glad to e-mail to you, please just send me a PM with your address.

This is what Bill Springer, who wrote the test story for Sail magazine, recently had to say in his blog about Rocna's fraudulent claim that their anchor "had 40% more holding power than the next best anchor tested" :

"I've not heard Rocna's claims directly, but I can say that neither the data, nor the report, says that the Rocna had "40% greater holding power than the next best anchor tested."

Below is Bill's blog with more about this test:
Bill Springer's Sailboat Stories: Which Anchor Holds Best? 14 Anchors Are Put To The Test
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post #25 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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Charts from West Marine test

Here is a sampling from the West Marine spreadsheet noted above. I have included only the part with Fortress compared to the Rocna, and as you will note, the Rocna did NOT out-perform the Fortress in this test.

Also, I have attached a section of the test notes from the New Brighton location, where the Rocna anchor benefited by a false pull reading at that location.

This false pull inflated Rocna's "peak strain" numbers, which they have chosen to ignore in their marketing efforts.

I have also attached other magazine charts from this test which Rocna has chosen to ignore as well, which also prove that Rocna did not "win" this test.

By the way, what is an Anchorsmith?

Best regards,
Brian
Fortress Marine Anchors
Attached Thumbnails
West Marine - Fortress vs. Rocna.jpg   Table 5 - Test notes -Rocna false pull.jpg   1 of 2 Sail magazine charts.jpg   Power & Motoryacht chart.jpg   Yachting Monthly chart.jpg  


Last edited by BrianFortress; 04-18-2011 at 04:31 PM.
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post #26 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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Well

At least i no longer wonder why we never had and issue with the Fortress

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post #27 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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Rocna RINA certification fraud

Recently on Rocna's web site until the fraud was exposed:

Rocna classification and certification

The Rocna anchor range has RINA type approval and SHHP classification. Its facilities are RINA approved and individual anchor certification can be provided on request. RINA is a member of the IACS and the Rocna classification will be accepted by all other notable societies including Lloyd's, DNV, Bureau Veritas, ABS, and others as equivalent with their own rules.

What Rocna CEO Steve Bambury admitted on the Anything Sailing forum:

We’ve now completed all of the seabed testing, proof load testing, welding testing and material testing required to obtain certification of the design of the Rocna itself and the manufacturing facility. It’s now a matter of all the reports being processed by RINA for final certification. We will of course be publishing the certificates as soon as they become available.

Here is the follow up comment from Maine Sail, who exposed this to the thread on the forum:

So above YOU STATE and ADMIT you DO NOT yet have the actual "certification" but your OWN web site says it "CAN BE PROVIDED".. I don't know about where you come from but here in the US that is considered a pure UNADULTERATED LIE !!!!!!

Not to mention the many times Craig has claimed "RINA" or "RINA Obtained" which you've now admitted you don't technically have "yet"...


If you wish to see the actual post, it is 353 on this web page below:http://www.anything-sailing.com/show...s.-Rocna/page9

Rocna cannot produce any form of a certification from RINA, quite simply because one does not exist.
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post #28 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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Hi Brian,

I have another question re your anchors, but do not to post it in this thread, can I PM or get an email from you.

Thank you
marty

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post #29 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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The complete test on the Yachting world magazine:

https://www.marinestore.nl/downloads...dec%202006.pdf
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post #30 of 215 Old 04-18-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianFortress View Post
Rocna cannot produce any form of a certification from RINA, quite simply because one does not exist.
Brian, that would seem to be the case, but that doesn't mean the Rocna anchors have failed to pass RINA's testing or are deficient in some way - simply that their marketing jumped the gun by a year or three.

As someone who was involved in the "discussions" you refer to over at A-S, the summary of facts as they ended was:

1. Rocna used to manufacture in NZ and Canada and have since shifted operations to China.

2. Rocna obtained a statement from RINA in 2010 confiming anchor samples across their range met the requirements for SHHP seabed (holding-power, etc) tests. These tests were carried out in 2008.

3. Rocna do not (yet) have certification for their Chinese manufacturing facilities. Perhaps there are issues over there? No-one knows.. although there was a post or two about some kind of law-suit which may or may not have some bearing on the Certification delays.

Therefore, although it is clear that Rocna's Chinese-made anchors do not have RINA Certification (yet), whether or not the NZ/Canada ones ever did is unknown: although the question was asked, no response has been given to date.

Yes, it does seem Fortress are the only one of the "Big 3" SHHP anchor manufacturers out there that can confirm Certification (good for you!)... but the Certificates on your web site are still out of date, even though you promised you'd update them!!!

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Last edited by Classic30; 04-18-2011 at 07:44 PM.
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