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  #41  
Old 05-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
Wonderful idea, when and where it is allowed. Many (most?) marina's won't allow you to permanently attached anything to wooden docks as they feel it accelerates their deterioration. Also, it doesn't solve the OPs original question/problem unless he never docked anywhere but home and never rafted to another vessel.Dave
Didn't read the whole post (or my subsequent one in which I addressed the marina issue) did ya? I suggested tying to the bottom of the stanchion if no other options are available. I eliminated my death lines years ago (a whole other thread), and therefore, have no stanchions. I go to guest docks all the time. So I assure you, other options are available. I run one fender line through a jib sheet car with a stopper knot, tie another to a shroud base, etc.. IMO, tying fenders off on lifelines is bad form. It creates unnecessary wear and tear on the life lines and stanchion/deck connection. I have to agree with a previous post which said it much more tactfully than I can. If you are trying to tie your fenders at knee height to avoid tying them off at ankle height, it might be time for a power boat!

Last edited by L124C; 05-20-2011 at 03:01 AM.
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  #42  
Old 05-20-2011
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Originally Posted by MikeWhy View Post
... investing in injection molded complex hydrocarbon clips because you can't be bothered to learn to tie a simple knot seems to be the wrong direction to evolve. Next thing you know, we'll be burning said hydrocarbons in heat engines when the wind fails us.
Suggesting that evolution is akin to becoming a stinkpotter requires some defense.

To set the record straight, no one on my boat is having any trouble tying the knot itself and we use a round turn and two half hitches. A clove hitch does not change anything for us.

Holding a 12 inch fender at ankle height, while it gets kicked around by the bow wake is tough, period. Every man, woman or child that has done it has commented. It isn't impossible, it just stinks, particularly after a long day.

As I've said, although the chest pounders ignored it, we have not yet found an acceptable alternative. However, if I do, I'm on it.
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  #43  
Old 05-20-2011
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Folks, knotting to the life lines is fine but it should be around the stantion. Otherwise the normal movement of the boat can "walk" the fender out of place. Listen to Bjones, I use a brass snap clip attached to my toe rail at the dock. Perfect fit every time and the fenders don't move even when I have a sometimes "unseaman like" dock landing (it happens). When I raft I clip the same fender to the lower life line around the stantion, hull protected, no problem. I use cheap alumium caribiners for my spare fenders, $.99 at HD. In fact I have a bunch of them on board and use them for all sorts of things.

John
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I can see the advantage of clipping on low to a stanchion, where the leverage is low or nil compared to tying off on the top lifeline. I do like the 'biner idea; that's almost worth a look to see if it'll work. (Although metal to metal doesn't seem such a great idea.) It hardly seemed worth a second thought. Just walk the fender to where it needs to go; toss it over; spin, spin, tuck, and tug it tight; done. I dunno. Maybe if I tripped and fell over a box full of 'biners someday.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
The height of the docks you dock at and the freeboard of the boats you raft with may vary, but the shape of YOUR boat's hull doesn't, and that is what you are protecting, so I have never understood the need for adjustability. What we did was hang out fenders from stainless snap hooks or carabiners, with a large enough mouth to fit around our stanchion bases. set the fender height, knot it, and it's done forever. Hanging fenders is as simple as snapping the shackle around the stanchion, and no pressure on the lifelines.

To solve the rubrail chafe problem, wrap the lines in leather chafe guards.
From what I've seen in Maine, the Chesapeake, Jersy shore and the Carribean, the need for adjustability is more common in areas where you have a moderate tidal range vs. a large tidal range or very little.

In Maine with a large tidal range there is almot no fixed docks. It's all floating docks which are at consistent hight in reference to the water level. A 12 in. fender set at the waterline will work in most instances.

On the Chesapeake and Jersey shore with the moderate tidal range you get more of a mixture of fixed level docks and floating docks. With a fixed dock and a 3-4 ft tidal range you likely will need to adjust your fenders.

In the Carribbean with a small tidal range if you at the same fixed dock all the time you may not need any adjustments. However the distance between the water level and the fixed level of all docks you might visit could vary requiring an adjustment in fender position.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Suggesting that evolution is akin to becoming a stinkpotter requires some defense.

To set the record straight, no one on my boat is having any trouble tying the knot itself and we use a round turn and two half hitches. A clove hitch does not change anything for us.

Holding a 12 inch fender at ankle height, while it gets kicked around by the bow wake is tough, period. Every man, woman or child that has done it has commented. It isn't impossible, it just stinks, particularly after a long day.

As I've said, although the chest pounders ignored it, we have not yet found an acceptable alternative. However, if I do, I'm on it.
I guess I'm not understanding your issue with tieing off the fender at ankle height and having a problem holding the fender. When you are approaching most docks you are usually in a no wake zone, no? How fast are you going? At 6 knots I'm just not understanding how it could be too hard to hold a fender, man or woman.
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Old 05-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LinekinBayCD View Post
.....A 12 in. fender set at the waterline ....
That's the problem right there. If you are using a 12" fender on a boat with 36-40" of freeboard, no wonder you are having to adjust them.
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Originally Posted by LinekinBayCD View Post
I guess I'm not understanding your issue with tieing off the fender at ankle height and having a problem holding the fender. When you are approaching most docks you are usually in a no wake zone, no? How fast are you going? At 6 knots I'm just not understanding how it could be too hard to hold a fender, man or woman.
This year will be easier in that regard and probably can be set inside the no wake zone. Where we were last year was open to the bay, so you had no choice but to set them in the chop and while underway. By the time you were inside the no wake zone, which did not stop any wakes from the bay, we were too busy turning the boat around to back into the slip to be messing with fenders.

Do you or have you had 12x34 fenders? I didn't say it was impossible, but it's a real hassle when you're tired. They weigh about 2.5 times what an 8in fender weighs.
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Last edited by Minnewaska; 05-21-2011 at 05:26 AM. Reason: Typos
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Something you may want to bring up with the others on your boat is the potential for these devices to damage your boat. Hear me out. I used to use the white plastic clips that you thread the fender whip through. At the end of the sail, I'd just pull them out and hang them on the lifelines. Easy right?

The problem was that over time I noticed that they seemed to loosen my stanchions. A handful of times, I had dock lines either wear through or stolen and the boat ended up against the fenders and dock. The movement of the boat and water put quite a strain on the fenders, thus the lifelines and stanchion tops. Over time I noticed most of the stanchions near where I had been attaching my fender clips had become loose and leaked. Unfortunately my headliner had no access panels so I got to cut out parts of the head liner getting to the hardware so I could rebed the stanchions.

I don't know if others have had similar experiences, but I stopped using them a few years back. I tie to the base of the stanchions now and haven't had a problem since. Just food for thought.
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Old 05-21-2011
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Originally Posted by Oldsoul View Post
The problem was that over time I noticed that they seemed to loosen my stanchions. A handful of times, I had dock lines either wear through or stolen and the boat ended up against the fenders and dock. The movement of the boat and water put quite a strain on the fenders, thus the lifelines and stanchion tops. Over time I noticed most of the stanchions near where I had been attaching my fender clips had become loose and leaked. Unfortunately my headliner had no access panels so I got to cut out parts of the head liner getting to the hardware so I could rebed the stanchions. I don't know if others have had similar experiences, but I stopped using them a few years back. I tie to the base of the stanchions now and haven't had a problem since. Just food for thought.
Amen!
BTW, I'm not "beating my chest" when I suggest people who don't want to tie off at ankle height might want to get a power boat. It's simply that given the list of challenging duties and conditions we face when sailing, kneeling down to tie a fender off while approaching a dock, is fairly far down the list (IMHO).

Last edited by L124C; 05-21-2011 at 05:23 PM.
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