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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Gear & Maintenance
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
PD, OK, I think what you are saying is that the debris may have accumulated in the bowl during normal use and not the evaporation process? If so, might not draining the bowl from time to time help to get rid of some or all of the debris?I will let you know how the evaporation expiriment comes out, may take a while. I have used Berryman's B-12 fuel additive for years which is supposed ti absorb moisture? I have never seen any water in the bottom of my various fuel tanks. I will try another expiriment, put some gas in a container, add some water, then add some B-12 and see if the water goes away?

Dabnis

Dabnis

I did a study for Practical Sailor Magazine a few years ago. NONE of the additives had ANY material effect on e-10 separation. They may do other things, but they DO NOT prevent separation. Just snake oil. They did work, to some extent, on non-ethanol gasoline. However, some of the old "dry" additives have been proven to make separation in humid conditions worse! They were ONLY for winter use, to prevent icing, when the humidity is low. But the advertising didn't say that.

Yes, I suspect you were getting occasional e-10 separation. The best cure is to keep the tank full and the vent closed when possible.

I doubt draining the bowl is fast enough to remove any debris. Removing the bowl and cleaning every few years is very easy on some small engines (I've done it on my 3.5 Merc while the boat was hanging over the water on davits! I also added an in-line paper lawn mower filter.) and might make sense.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2011
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PD,

OK, half a can of gas, not sure how much ethanol is in it, the pump says it can be up to 10%, added half teaspoon of water and about half an ounce of B-12.
Upon stiring the mixture turns milky then clears, no water beading. After it sat for about an hour there was a very slight "line", no beading, in the bottom that went away with a slight stir. It would appear that with any motion at all the water has been absorbed by the B-12. The evaporization test is in progress but will take a while.

Dabnis
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Old 07-12-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
PD,

OK, half a can of gas, not sure how much ethanol is in it, the pump says it can be up to 10%, added half teaspoon of water and about half an ounce of B-12.
Upon stiring the mixture turns milky then clears, no water beading. After it sat for about an hour there was a very slight "line", no beading, in the bottom that went away with a slight stir. It would appear that with any motion at all the water has been absorbed by the B-12. The evaporation test is in progress but will take a while.

Dabnis
Not surprising. With e-10 at summer temperatures about 1.6 ounces of water will dissolve in 2.5 gallons, and what you describe is the way it looks. The moment you pass the threshold, ALL of the alcohol (about a quart) will come out in 10 minutes. B-12 (biodiesel) should have little effect, except that the biodiesel is less oxidativly stable than other 2-stroke oils (the biodiesel could be the problem).
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Old 07-12-2011
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A note of caution about runnig dry.
A two cycle engines needs the oil mixed with the gas to lubricate itself. Running the engine dry gives you that last moment without any lube in the engine for protection. Might not cause much damage but the cumulative effect and the dry cylinders made available for corrosion to take hold ought to be considered.
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Old 07-12-2011
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Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
Not surprising. With e-10 at summer temperatures about 1.6 ounces of water will dissolve in 2.5 gallons, and what you describe is the way it looks. The moment you pass the threshold, ALL of the alcohol (about a quart) will come out in 10 minutes. B-12 (biodiesel) should have little effect, except that the biodiesel is less oxidativly stable than other 2-stroke oils (the biodiesel could be the problem).
I should have been more specific "B-12" meant to say "Berryman's B-12 fuel additive" I checked the mixture today after it warmed up a little, can't see any trace of the water. So, I am wondering, did it evaporate from the top or is the water still in suspension in the gas?

Thanks, Dabnis
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Old 07-12-2011
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I run my carb dry if I'm not planning on using in within a week. I have occasionally forgotten to do so when distracted, and it has been fine over three outboards and 25 years that way. Plus, the garage flushes usually take care of that in the fall anyway. I think new gasolines are much more stable, and less prone to varnishing.

Unless I've run the carb dry, or switching tanks, I never touch the bulb. No need to.
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Old 07-12-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
I should have been more specific "B-12" meant to say "Berryman's B-12 fuel additive" I checked the mixture today after it warmed up a little, can't see any trace of the water. So, I am wondering, did it evaporate from the top or is the water still in suspension in the gas?

Thanks, Dabnis
You won't see any water when you dry a sample; it will evaporate along with the ethanol as an azeotrope (Azeotrope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). That is the thing about ethanol and water; they like each other far more than they like gasoline.
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  #28  
Old 07-13-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
You won't see any water when you dry a sample; it will evaporate along with the ethanol as an azeotrope (Azeotrope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). That is the thing about ethanol and water; they like each other far more than they like gasoline.
OK, kind of like magic. Main thing is that the water is gone.

Thanks for the reply, Dabnis
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Old 07-15-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I did a study for Practical Sailor Magazine a few years ago. NONE of the additives had ANY material effect on e-10 separation. They may do other things, but they DO NOT prevent separation.
Yes, I suspect you were getting occasional e-10 separation. The best cure is to keep the tank full and the vent closed when possible.
I.
May I respectfully suggest that you look at butyl cellosolve.

Dick
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Old 07-16-2011
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May I respectfully suggest that you look at butyl cellosolve.

Dick
I was looking at the ingrediants of Berryman's B-12 Fuel Additive:
Toluene(108-88-3)
Methanol (67-56-1)
Acetone (67-64-1)
2- Butoxethanol (111-76-2)
Mixed Xylenes (1330-20-7)
Isopropanol (67-63-0)
Methyl Ethyl Ketone (78-93-3)

Curious as to what all that stuff is and what it does?

Thanks, Dabnis
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