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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #31  
Old 07-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
I was looking at the ingrediants of Berryman's B-12 Fuel Additive:
Toluene(108-88-3)
Methanol (67-56-1)
Acetone (67-64-1)
2- Butoxethanol (111-76-2)
Mixed Xylenes (1330-20-7)
Isopropanol (67-63-0)
Methyl Ethyl Ketone (78-93-3)

Curious as to what all that stuff is and what it does?

Thanks, Dabnis
As it turns out, 2-butoxyethanol is very similar to cellosolve. Commonly used as degreasers (it is the smell you notice in Formula 409), these chemicals will help clean deposits in engines and carburetors, and they have some function as co-solvents, holding alcohol/water/gasoline mixtures together. They can also strip paint and destroy hoses and gaskets, even those formulated for gasoline and alcohols. They are relatively safe at the typical recommended dosage rates, though aggressive additives have been implicated in elastomer failures.

The fallacy is this; yes, it is possible to add enough chemical and soap to the fuel to hold the water in solution, but it takes a lot, not the small doses we are used to seeing in fuel additives. We did test 2 products like this. Typically, the required dose was as much as 20:1 (greater than the 50:1 2-stroke oil dose) and we were VERY uncomfortable adding emulsifiers in such large doses. Unless the additive manufacturer is prepared to run engine durability tests with a manufacturer and get the seal of approval, I think such treatments are risky and unwarranted. The risk to lubrication effectiveness is far too high.
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  #32  
Old 07-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
As it turns out, 2-butoxyethanol is very similar to cellosolve. Commonly used as degreasers (it is the smell you notice in Formula 409), these chemicals will help clean deposits in engines and carburetors, and they have some function as co-solvents, holding alcohol/water/gasoline mixtures together. They can also strip paint and destroy hoses and gaskets, even those formulated for gasoline and alcohols. They are relatively safe at the typical recommended dosage rates, though aggressive additives have been implicated in elastomer failures.

The fallacy is this; yes, it is possible to add enough chemical and soap to the fuel to hold the water in solution, but it takes a lot, not the small doses we are used to seeing in fuel additives. We did test 2 products like this. Typically, the required dose was as much as 20:1 (greater than the 50:1 2-stroke oil dose) and we were VERY uncomfortable adding emulsifiers in such large doses. Unless the additive manufacturer is prepared to run engine durability tests with a manufacturer and get the seal of approval, I think such treatments are risky and unwarranted. The risk to lubrication effectiveness is far too high.
PD,

Thanks for the reply. Berryman's recommends 1 oz per gallon. Do you think that is a "safe" ratio? I have been using it for years in off road motorcycles, outboards, snow blowers, generator and cars and have not had any fuel related problems except for the time I forgot to drain the carb on one of my outboards. However, your comments about lubrication effectiveness raises some concerns.

Thanks, Dabnis
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  #33  
Old 07-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
PD,

Thanks for the reply. Berryman's recommends 1 oz per gallon. Do you think that is a "safe" ratio? I have been using it for years in off road motorcycles, outboards, snow blowers, generator and cars and have not had any fuel related problems except for the time I forgot to drain the carb on one of my outboards. However, your comments about lubrication effectiveness raises some concerns.

Thanks, Dabnis
That's pretty typical, and it is 5-20 times less than additives formulated to absorb water. Sounds OK.

The reality is that most small engines die from other things than cylinder wear. Sailboat kickers die of corrosion and lack of use. Same with most snow blowers and chainsaws. We get sick of fooling with other non-use problems before real hours pile up.
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  #34  
Old 07-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
That's pretty typical, and it is 5-20 times less than additives formulated to absorb water. Sounds OK.

The reality is that most small engines die from other things than cylinder wear. Sailboat kickers die of corrosion and lack of use. Same with most snow blowers and chainsaws. We get sick of fooling with other non-use problems before real hours pile up.
OK, sounds good, I think I will stay with it. As mentioned earlier I put some water in gas, added some Berryman's addetive and the water became invisible, I think you said it evaporated, anyway it's gone from sight. I am doing the evaporation test mentioned earlier, half a coffee can of gas, surprised it evaporates so slowly. Thanks again for the info.

Dabnis
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