How does a Honda Generator work? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 12-02-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 886
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
GaryHLucas is on a distinguished road
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

I conducted a little experiment during Hurricane Sandy when our power was out for 5 days. After Irene Costco had a generator sale, scheduled before the hurricane. I picked up a Champion 2000 watt inverter generator somewhat similar to the Honda for $325! Even so I heard about it for the next two years about how I had wasted money on a generator we didn't need because in 30 years our power has never been off for more than a couple of hours. Pointing out that our refrigerator and freezer had easily $500 worth of food that would go bad was simply seen as being argumentative!

The little generator would power the refrigerator or the freezer but not both even though the total watts was easily under the rating of the generator. It would run the frig or freezer with the hot air furnace though, because I coughed up an extra grand when we replaced the old heater, for an inverter operated variable speed blower. It starts slowly and quietly and the generator hardly notices.

I figured that what I needed was a way to store a little power in advance to provide the generator with a little help when a frig or freezer started. I've done lots of motor and generator electrical work and knew that a motor would store electrical energy as mechanical energy by essentially becoming a flywheel. So I purchased a bench grinder to use as the energy storage device. If it worked I'd also replace the lightweight grinding wheels with heavy iron or steel wheels that would store a lot more power.

It didn't work. The grinder didn't help the situation at all, in fact it made it a little worse. I was mystified, I'd seen it work in the past where we started some small motors and then large ones could be easily started up. However I think I now know the reason.

These generators have inverters that put out exactly 60 hertz AC. The 60 Hertz has nothing to do with the engine speed, which is why the engine can throttle down under light loads. So when a large load is thrown on the generator the frequency remains the same and just the voltage drops. In most cases this is preferred. To store energy in a rotating motor you just have to start it up. To get power back out of it though it has be turning faster than the power source so that the magnetic field causes it to regenerate back into the line. However if the line frequency doesn't drop, just the voltage, then regeneration doesn't happen. So an inverter generator defeats the whole idea.

This should however work quite well on a conventional small generator. I wish I had one so I could test it out.

One other thing, for those of you that ran your generators for days. Drain ALL the fuel, and change the oil NOW! Otherwise the fuel will foul the carburetor and the acids and moisture left in the oil will cause corrosion so it won't work next hurricane. WE had to replace both of our generators at work because of this.

Gary H. Lucas
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 12-02-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,061
Thanks: 6
Thanked 53 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Tempest is on a distinguished road
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

I don't want to Hijack this thread, but it seems like it's relevant to the topic.

I purchased a generator for the house that I'm thinking of selling to my neighbor who wants one.

I'd like to replace it with one for the boat. Looking at the Honda 2000i's I see at least 2 versions. One is called a "companion" and has a 30 amp twist lock plug and a 110v outlet. The other simply has 2 110v outlets.

Would I be correct in assuming that I could plug my 30 amp shore power cable into the "companion" model and energize the main A/C panel on the boat.

I do have a pigtail that I use that has a 30 amp twist lock on one end and a regular three prong plug on the other end. ( I use it for charging batteries while on the hard)
Could I use that pigtail to accomplish the same thing on the model with 2- 110v outlets?

I wouldn't be running much of a load. Battery charger, TV, refrigeration , maybe a small fan..or a ceramic heater. I haven't done the math yet.

Anyone see advantages, disadvantages ... to one or the other model.
__________________
Tempest
Sabre 34
Morgan, NJ

Last edited by Tempest; 12-02-2012 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 12-03-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 9,478
Thanks: 10
Thanked 158 Times in 144 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
...I wouldn't be running much of a load. Battery charger, TV, refrigeration , maybe a small fan..or a ceramic heater. I haven't done the math yet.

Anyone see advantages, disadvantages ... to one or the other model.
The Companion model was designed to be connected to another unit to have more capacity. I don't see why you couldn't do as you suggest, but I don't really know. The ceramic heater gets my attention. The H2000 puts out about 13amps and I would expect a ceramic heater could take every bit of it.

On my battery charger, I set it for the incoming service, so it doesn't draw too much. The cable may be 30amps, but that's not what the genset will put out.
Tempest likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 12-03-2012
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,530
Thanks: 13
Thanked 147 Times in 113 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post

I wouldn't be running much of a load. Battery charger, TV, refrigeration , maybe a small fan..or a ceramic heater. I haven't done the math yet.

Anyone see advantages, disadvantages ... to one or the other model.
Actually that is quite a load. The EU2000 can only handle 1600W continuous, (for mine slightly less) before they trip off on over heat. For short durations they can do 2000W but to call them a 2000W generator is a tad misleading...

A ceramic disc heater usually has two settings 750W and 1500W. On high this leaves you with barely 100W left over...

Depending upon your battery charger they can also draw quite a bit. As an example, a fairly efficient newer Xantrex TrueCharge 20 draws 4A AC or 480W to produce 20A of DC charge current.... A fan won't draw much but the fridge can..
Tempest likes this.
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 12-03-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,061
Thanks: 6
Thanked 53 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Tempest is on a distinguished road
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

Thanks for that math Gents. It's clear that I'd have to manage the loads to operate devices at different times. Batteries are usually charged by the time I hit an anchorage,( At least the starting battery ) and It's rare that I'd need the heater, So, I problably overstated the continuous load.

I guess that still leaves me with the decision of the " companion" unit vs the standard eu2000i . I just thought it would be simpler to energize the boat's AC main panel and outlets, rather than run extension cords. I could accomplish that with either unit..with either the pigtail, or my regular shore power cord. With the understanding that I'm not generating 30 amps. or the rated %..
__________________
Tempest
Sabre 34
Morgan, NJ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 12-03-2012
chucklesR's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,979
Thanks: 10
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 10
chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

The companion, with it's 30 amp is great if you are going to run two units, then you need the 30 amp.
For just one gen, save the money and use the pig tail connection to your boats 30amp shore power.
Tempest likes this.
__________________
Lessons learned are opportunities earned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 12-04-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
robert@hm is on a distinguished road
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
Would I be correct in assuming that I could plug my 30 amp shore power cable into the "companion" model and energize the main A/C panel on the boat.

Anyone see advantages, disadvantages ... to one or the other model.
Plugging into the 30A outlet on the Companion model EU2000i is just fine, as long as you understand it won't provide a full 30A of service when running as a single generator. Connect it to a second, standard model EU2000i for a full 4,000 watt (peak) 3,200 watts continuous power.

Here are the key differences:

Standard model EU2000i:
• 20A duplex 120V receptacle
• 12V DC car battery only unregulated charging outlet
• MSRP $1149*

Companion model EU2000i:
• Single 20A 120V receptacle
• 30A 120 receptacle
• No DC charging
• MSRP $1279*

* Dealer sets actual selling price.

Visit the gen.honda.com site for more details, including a "Find a Dealer" search tool.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 12-04-2012
chucklesR's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,979
Thanks: 10
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 10
chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

Robert,
Any chance you can explain what makes the Honda so good as compared to the competition?
I ask because I'm seriously contemplating a Yahama 2800 as a generator onboard simply because I like the extra amps it can provide, and it's only 200 bucks more than MSRP on the Honda.
__________________
Lessons learned are opportunities earned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 12-04-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
robert@hm is on a distinguished road
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Robert,
Any chance you can explain what makes the Honda so good as compared to the competition?
I ask because I'm seriously contemplating a Yahama 2800 as a generator onboard simply because I like the extra amps it can provide, and it's only 200 bucks more than MSRP on the Honda.
Just to be sure, you're talking about the Yamaha EF2800i? Open-frame inverter model?

Generally, it's best to have more generator power than you need, because you'll often find other things to power later on. So start by figuring out how much power you need now, and consider a solution that would provide some cushion. I am not very familiar with marine A/C systems, but if they are similar to those on an RV, I know 2,800 watts is right on the edge of enough power to start and run a 13,500 BTU system.

The Yamaha does offer more power than the single EU2000i Honda, and while that's an important difference, there are others to consider; two big ones come to mind:

• Portability: Will you be loading/unloading the generator or need to move it around? With a full tank of fuel, the Yamaha is 84 lbs. and 55 lbs. for the Honda.

• Noise Level: How important is noise when using the generator? Decibel measurement are good, but try to listen to both units running at idle and full throttle for a true assessment of noise, vibration, harshness to your ears. The Yamaha is 67-67 dBa, while the Honda is 53-59 dBa.

Both the Yamaha and Honda are well-made units with 3-year warranties. But what good is it if you can't get to a servicing dealer when you need help? I went to the "Find a Dealer" links for both Yamaha and Honda and searched for a generator servicing dealership in the Jacksonville, FL area. For Yamaha, there are none; the nearest is 149 miles away on near Tampa. For Honda, there are 8 dealers with a Jacksonville address. I will bet you get similar results for dealer searches in your region too.

Look at what others are using and learn from their experiences. I'll bet most are using Honda generators, and those that need more power than a single EU2000i model can provide usually get a second one (the Companion model), for a full 4,000 watts of combined power. While it's more $$ than a single 2800 watt Yamaha, you do get significantly more power, less weight, less noise. To be fair, that's two generators to change oil, drain fuel, and service.

Hope this helps...

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 12-04-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 9,478
Thanks: 10
Thanked 158 Times in 144 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: How does a Honda Generator work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert@honda View Post
....The Yamaha is 67-67 dBa, while the Honda is 53-59 dBa.....
I'm pretty sure that decibels are exponential, so this is much more than a 25% increase in noise.

The Honda gens are remarkably quiet. I had a very old Generac home portable genset that would blister paint, let alone make you deaf. I am amazed at how whisper quiet my Honda is.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honda Generator not triggering charger boltnbrew Gear & Maintenance 19 03-16-2012 03:19 PM
Help Please Honda 3000, or Yahama gas generator Popeyensweetp Electrical Systems 0 03-21-2009 05:23 PM
Help costing a generator and lots of generator questions... labatt Gear & Maintenance 10 10-16-2008 02:01 AM
Honda Generator Gas Conversion EuphoriaOz Gear & Maintenance 2 02-09-2008 08:20 AM
Honda EU2000i Generator - Life expectancy GeorgeIP350 General Discussion (sailing related) 1 09-12-2006 12:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:17 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.