California Copper Anti Fouling Paint Bill On Hold - SailNet Community

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Old 08-09-2011
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California Copper Anti Fouling Paint Bill On Hold

Looks like SB 623 is on hold for now. Makes me wonder if they didnít have the votes in the Assembly to get it passed this month and want more time to tweak it (read: make it even less effective) so it is more palatable to our esteemed representatives. From Senator Kehoe's office:

Hello, everyoneó

After much deliberation, Senator Kehoe has decided to hold SB 623 in the Assembly Appropriations Committee. Itís now a two-year bill and will not be heard in that committee on August 17; however, we do plan on moving the bill next year.

Over the last couple of weeks, weíve received productive input from state agencies, the Governorís office and other sources. We want to use the extra time weíll have during the fall to consider that information and continue working with you all on the bill.

Thanks for your ongoing commitment to work with us. The sponsors and I will be back in touch soon.

Linda Barr, Legislative Director
Office of Senator Christine Kehoe
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Old 08-09-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
Looks like SB 623 is on hold for now. Makes me wonder if they didn’t have the votes in the Assembly to get it passed this month and want more time to tweak it (read: make it even less effective) so it is more palatable to our esteemed representatives. From Senator Kehoe's office:
This whole bottom paint issue is just stupid ignorance. The biggest marina in Vancouver has seals, otters, FISH, swans, geese etc. etc. living in it. The copper detritus from 1000 boats over more than 1/2 century doesn't seem to harm them.

I reminds me of the TBTF ban some years back - unacceptably toxic on my 25 footer but O/K on a 1000 foot bulk carrier? On any given day in English bay there were more square feet of tin paint on the freighters than every pleasure boat that ever sailed there COMBINED

What ignorant pandering idiots.
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Old 08-09-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJ760308
This whole bottom paint issue is just stupid ignorance. The biggest marina in Vancouver has seals, otters, FISH, swans, geese etc. etc. living in it. The copper detritus from 1000 boats over more than 1/2 century doesn't seem to harm them.
Just because you don't see mutated animals in your area doesn't mean there is no harm being done. But since you don't know how much copper is in that particular marina (or any other) nor can you prove the animals aren't being harmed, your argument is rather pointless.

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Originally Posted by SloopJ760308
I reminds me of the TBTF ban some years back - unacceptably toxic on my 25 footer but O/K on a 1000 foot bulk carrier? On any given day in English bay there were more square feet of tin paint on the freighters than every pleasure boat that ever sailed there COMBINED

What ignorant pandering idiots.
Except now tin-based paints are banned worldwide. Why is that- because it was harmless to the environment?
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Old 08-09-2011
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Copper is an issue with respect to its effects on invertebrates, it is not an issue for vertebrates. In fact, many treatments for fish and marine mammal ecto-parasites (i.e., invertebrates living on fish and marine mammals) are copper-based. That being said, I am not all that convinced that copper from bottom paint is all that big an environmental problem. It probably (almost certainly) does have some impact on the sediments in harbors. But it isn't nearly as soluble as are the compounds of organic tin used in bottom paints.

Relative to copper, tributyltin has a fairly high solubility, and it can move around in the environment much more easily. Organic tin definitely is/was a problem, as is both directly toxic to many invertebrates at very low concentrations, and acts as an endocrine disruptor in molluscs (most famously in whelks). It also bioaccumulates/bioconcentrates in marine mammals, and there is some evidence that it has played a role in mass strandings of toothed whales..

However, although inorganic copper is much less of an environmental problem, I suspect it is only a matter of time (and the advent of practical substitutes) before some sort of ban is implemented.
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Old 08-09-2011
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Perhaps this bill, like many that target recreational boating - ONLY, was ill conceived in the first place...Maybe that wonderful Fed Agency that does similar things will get the message, too.

no unhappy folks in this part of the country about more intrusions,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
Just because you don't see mutated animals in your area doesn't mean there is no harm being done. But since you don't know how much copper is in that particular marina (or any other) nor can you prove the animals aren't being harmed, your argument is rather pointless.
When an area becomes toxic over a long period of time, the wildlife moves away. Bottom paint ain't an oil spill. The fact that the marinas are as alive as the other parts of the coast indicates to me that they are unaffected. I'd say the 56 years of crowded Marina in a hurricane hole type cove means there is as much copper there as anywhere outside a toxic dumpsite. This whole thing is a Green based push against "rich yachtsmen" because they are an easy target. It is based on the "obvious effect" of the paint rather than any science or even observations - it plays well with the armchair liberals who think something important is being done when, in actuality, it is only causing problems for boatowners and accomplishes little or nothing.

Just to give you an actual comparison, several local coves are regularly closed to swimming due to high fecal coliform counts. This has been proven to be caused by bear and other wildlife sh*t washing into enclosed coves. The count in that marina never exceeds posted toxicity levels

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Except now tin-based paints are banned worldwide. Why is that- because it was harmless to the environment?
I never read or heard that tin was banned worldwide for anything but pleasureboats.

What are the steel boats, freighters etc. using now?
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When an area becomes toxic over a long period of time, the wildlife moves away.
It's a matter of degree. Water pollution doesn't have to be so bad that the affected area is devoid of life before something should be done. For example, when tin paints were banned, it was because negative changes to many marine lifeforms were being found. But the flora and fauna were still living where they always had. Just because you haven't noticed any problems doesn't mean there aren't any.

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I never read or heard that tin was banned worldwide for anything but pleasureboats.
Well, it has.

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What are the steel boats, freighters etc. using now?
Copper or non-toxic coatings.

BTW- it is not my position that there are environmental problems in our coastal waters due to copper loading from anti fouling paints. But it is my position that there are hundreds of bodies of water in California that are impaired for copper, and by that I mean they exceed federal water quality standards for that metal. Which is why it needs to be reduced in this state.

Last edited by Fstbttms; 08-09-2011 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 08-10-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
BTW- it is not my position that there are environmental problems in our coastal waters due to copper loading from anti fouling paints. But it is my position that there are hundreds of bodies of water in California that are impaired for copper, and by that I mean they exceed federal water quality standards for that metal. Which is why it needs to be reduced in this state.
FastB - I hadn't heard about this situation in Cali. Your response seems to indicate that the affected bodies of water are not coastal but I can't see them being inland - lake boaters generally don't use it.

Can you elaborate on this? I don't want you to think I'm some neanderthal rejecting the concept of pollution - obviously bottom paint is toxic by it's very nature and concentrations such as marinas will have it in their sediment but I've always regarded it as somewhat akin to hydrocarbons on a parking lot - less than desirable but not really a problem that prevents kids playing basketball there.

The marina situation I described has a lot more to it - the whole sound (a large, extremely deep fjord was completely poisoned years ago by a pulp mill near its head. Their dioxin laced effluent had virtually killed off everything in the sound. After it was cleaned up, the sea life returned in abundance - high food chain stuff like eagles, otters, seals as well as loads of shrimp and so forth. The marina area is no different than the rest of the sound on the face of it - all the wildlife is healthy.

That's why I see this proposed ban as overkill (pardon the choice of words ) since there is really nothing yet to replace copper with - nothing effective anyway.
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Old 08-10-2011
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Almost, I say almost, regardless of the potential harm, that copper can do to the environment, why, oh why, do these same legislatures IGNORE the REGULAR dumping of millions of gallons of raw sewage?

That is the REAL outrage.
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Almost, I say almost, regardless of the potential harm, that copper can do to the environment, why, oh why, do these same legislatures IGNORE the REGULAR dumping of millions of gallons of raw sewage?

That is the REAL outrage.
Gives you a great crab harvest! They LOVE the outfall from our treatment plant.
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