need advice on modifying my storm jib.. - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 12 Old 10-14-2011 Thread Starter
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need advice on modifying my storm jib..

Hi,
I am a beginner stage sailor and I have essentially no storm experience.
Trying to outfit the boat so I can do this type of sailing safely...

I went to a harken roller furler a few years ago.

Was thinking of picking up the ATN gale sail as a storm sail...

Then I remembered I have a hank on 30% storm sail that came with the boat.
I can get that converted to luff rope.

So I go to the sailmaker in annapolis... he tells me he has been setting up boats with the storm sail in a ready bag. Instead of a luff tape or whatever that goes into the furler foil, he uses the new high tech low stretch line and puts that on the storm sail.

If you are sailing in sunshine..... then 60 seconds later and you are in a rainy hurricaine.... you just furl up your 150 headsail and hoist the stormsail that is already attached to your second jib halyard. The high tech line becomes the pseudo forestay. You crank down really hard on the halyard #2 there you are.

You never left the cockpit.

............. But thats not the part I need the advice on.............

Went to the annapolis sailboat show.
Started thinkin......
what if I installed the anti-twist or anti-torque line instead of standard low stretch line? Then I could go with one of those new fancy code-zero furlers that you just snap on!!!!!

....... then i started thinkin again.......

-If the storm jib is your final sail up, why would you wish to have it a furler?

-Is there any reason that you would wish to furl your storm jib after it is hoisted?

If you have a normal twin groove drum style furler, you can put on progressively smaller head sails before the weather gets really really bad. Will it still be safe/comfortable to go forward to progressively take down the 150% to hoist the %100%. Go forward to take down the 100% to put up the 60%?

Is there any reason at all to have small code-zero furler equipment?

Maybe the original idea is the best and saves me money on not specifiying the anti-twist line?

THANKS FOR HELPING!!!
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post #2 of 12 Old 10-14-2011
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You don't say where you sail (or plan to sail) and what kind of boat. In general I would question the need for a storm jib at this stage of your sailing life. We sailed 20,000 miles in the last two years and never thought of using either our storm jib or storm trysail.

If your 150% genoa is the only headsail you have other than the tiny one, ask people who sail in your area with similar boats, how large their gennies are. Most people tend to use something around 135% but a 150% would be fine if you are in an area that does not get a lot of wind.

Something else to think about is the difficulty of changing jibs when it is blowing. The sail that is coming down tends to fall partly in the water (not a good thing) and it can be tricky forward if it is rough, which it tends to be. If you really want a storm jib then your sailmaker's idea seems a good one although I have not seen such a sail. We accomplish the same task by having an inner stay that we can hoist our hank-on storm jib (or staysail) to.

Back home on Lake Ontario after something over 36,000 nm circumnavigator. Not surprisingly there is a lot of stuff I want to get done on Ainia both cosmetically and functionally. Getting an early start so it will be ready to go for next summer (Lake Superior?).
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post #3 of 12 Old 10-15-2011
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The sailmaker idea is a good one if you really have the need for a stormsail. also keep in mind that a twin groove headsail foil can not be used if you have the sail on the top furler swivel. if you put up a different sail before lower the one on the furler you will not be able to lower the first sail. twin groovefoils are mostly for racing when you don't use the roller feature. unless you have a furler with two halyards that are built into the foil. haylards on the mast will not work. some use the twin groove to run two headsails wing and wing when going down wind.

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Last edited by overbored; 10-15-2011 at 12:25 AM.
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post #4 of 12 Old 10-15-2011
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You have a furler... changing headsails on a furler is basically a bare-headed operation (unlike a racing foil where you can hoist one before dropping the other).

Unlike hanked-on sails, a luff tape sail is difficult to contain on deck, esp shorthanded, and esp in deteriorating conditions. A better plan would be to make the best guess for which sail you'll need and set that one up before you head out.

I think you'd be best to get a versatile inventory.. chances are if you really need a storm sail you likely wouldn't be heading out that day, esp at this early stage.

However if you choose to do so it sounds like your sailmaker's plan ( using a temporary synthetic stay) is worth a try.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
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post #5 of 12 Old 10-15-2011 Thread Starter
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Is there ever a reason to douse or furl your final sail?
Or do you just leave it up and hove-to or motor sail with it on?
Is there an advantage or situation where you want the sail down and wish to only motor?
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post #6 of 12 Old 10-15-2011 Thread Starter
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Is there a reason for me to invest in a code-zero swivel and furler hardware for my 2nd to last sail, the 60%? In conditions waranting a 60% jib, would you want minimum time on foredeck to pull down the previous sail? Thus warranting the code-zero where you can just furl up the harken furler and clip on the code-zero with the 60% and quickly run back to cockpit to hoist?
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post #7 of 12 Old 10-15-2011
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Groundhog

By the time you are down to your smallest storm jib I doubt you will be motoring.

I would skip the furler and install a Solent stay. Just as easy to use and a lot less expensive. When you need a storm jib is not the time to be messing with setting up a furler, especially on the deck of a small boat in heavy seas.

Unless your budget is unlimited of course.
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post #8 of 12 Old 10-15-2011
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In my opinion you are thinking too much and sailing too little. Get some experience with what you have and the "advice" you are getting from books and magazines will be easier to interpret.

A few thoughts on your questions:

The ATN Gale Sail is a fundamentally bad idea. The videos on the ATN site are in benign conditions. Consider heaving that thing up on the foredeck with the bow bouncing up and down five or six feet, coordinating with someone at the mast on halyard hoist as you wrap the luff around the furled foresail. Add the bulk of the leading edge of the Gale Sail and you have an inefficient sail that is a nightmare to deploy.

The concept of your smallest sail needing a furler is counter intuitive. Consider a downhaul instead.

If you want a storm sail the advice of your Annapolis sailmaker is good. If, as I infer, you are in the middle Chesapeake Bay, major storm systems are forecast and you stay home. For summer thunderstorms you are more likely to roll up your foresail, reef the main, pull the main in tight, and motor into the wind until it blows through. It doesn't take long.

I agree with the point above that the 150 is pretty big for a (presumably) short-handed cruising boat and a 135 is a better choice, but you already have the 150 so just sail with it.

What sort of boat, how heavy, and where do you sail out of?

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post #9 of 12 Old 10-15-2011 Thread Starter
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Yes. Normally I would just go out and experiment and adjust my sails to my personal preference....

But... My sail is in the shop now. I am spending the money now. Money is comming out of my pocket in the next week.

So the reason I am hoping for some expert advice to guide me so I dont modify the sail incorrectly and then have to spend the same money and modify it again next year.

I dont have the experience yet to know the answer.

I just need the answer to the one question really.
The question was .... Is there ever a reason to want to douse (or furl, or down haul) your final sail?

If so, then I should probably instruct the sailmaker to put the anti-twist line on the storm jib now.

I will be alone on the boat. Not neccessarily on the chesapeake. The question is for anywhere..... in a bad situation. Not necessarily one that is blowing over in 1 hr.

If I average out and try to extract bits of info in all the above posts, sounds like I should just take the cheap, less complicated route and do as the sailmaker originally suggested.

Thank you...
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post #10 of 12 Old 10-15-2011
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No, there is no reason to furl a storm jib.

Your idea of hoisting it by itself will work.

A Solent stay is a better idea because you could then raise it from the cockpit after furling the jib. And with a downhaul which is very easy to rig you could also lower it from the cockpit.

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