Contemplating a drive line overhaul - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 48 Old 10-26-2011 Thread Starter
Learning the HARD way...
 
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I made the trip (50 miles each way) to New England Propeller in Plymouth, MA (they closed their S. Boston office).

I left them with the three big pieces of the shaft; one with coupling attached, one with the prop attached, and the piece that I took out between them. They're going to press out the coupling (Dave offered to try and salvage the old coupling that you see above. I told him not to bother. Once the moths get out of my wallet, I spend like a drunken sailor.) They are also going to remove and re-balance the prop.

On order is a new coupling, a Stainless Steel Prop Shaft, and a PSS Shaft Seal, a fit & face of the coupling & shaft, and a re-balance of the prop. I'll post when it comes in, and try to remember to take pix.
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post #22 of 48 Old 10-26-2011 Thread Starter
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Denise & Barry,

My rudder is actually fine! I don't know it's history, but it was looked at when I bought the boat (1 year ago) and it was good. I have never taken my moisture meter to it, but there are no trails of rust, or other indications of problems. It was tapped with a phenolic hammer by the surveyors. What should I look for?

Unlike Denise, I do NOT want to take my rudder home - unless I have to.
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post #23 of 48 Old 10-26-2011
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Hi,

My rudder wasn't (isn't) in bad condition. Each winter, when the boat is on the hard, I would see a few drips on each side, about 15" up from the bottom. So, since I had to remove the rudder anyway, I drilled a few small holes near when I saw the drips and then I let it sit in my basement all winter. The basement is dry and I placed the rudder near the furnace, so it was relatively warm. very little water came out, maybe 10 drips all winter.

In the spring I injected epoxy into the holes and put a bead of 5200 around the rudder post.

Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

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post #24 of 48 Old 11-01-2011 Thread Starter
Learning the HARD way...
 
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Quick update

Denise and Barry are right. The rudder has to be dropped. - And the damned thing is HEAVY! I'd estimate 200lbs.

In order to remove it, I had to dig a 2' hole under the rudder, and then pound the retaining bolt out of the quadrant, and then I had to loosen all the bolts that hold both halves of the quadrant together (4 9/16" and 2 7/16"). I then pried both halves apart with screwdrivers. The retaining bolt is a 3/8", 16 thread, stainless steel cap head screw, that is 8" long. I mushroomed the end, and buggered the threads while trying to remove it. New one is on order.

Here are some pix of the old, new, or improved parts.

Old stuffing box and hose

Purdy, isn't it?



Look closely and you will see where the shaft was rubbing on the stuffing box. THIS, I believe, was the source of the noise.

New PSS Shaft seal

1 & 3/4" ID to fit over the shaft log. 1" Shaft.

Rebalanced Prop, and balance report

That's a 16" 9 rev/foot prop with a 1" bore.

Contrary to what I believed above, there is NO bore reducer used in this application. The guy that I dealt with at NE Prop, said that a propeller shaft zinc would take care of any galvanic corrosion. (I don't think so...)

New and machined coupling


Everything - including the new Prop Shaft
  • New Cutlass Bearing
  • New Prop Shaft
  • New PSS Shaft Seal
  • New Coupling
  • Rebalanced Prop
  • Machining...
Almost $1K worth of parts in this picture.

Last edited by eherlihy; 11-01-2011 at 02:49 PM.
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post #25 of 48 Old 11-02-2011
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Hey,

If your rudder really weighs 200 lbs it must have A LOT of water in it. Mine weighed 100 MAX, I was easily able to move it into my car, then into the basement and then into the garage for repair. It's real bulky because of the length, but it should not weigh anything close to 200.

If you think removing it was fun, wait until you get to install it!

Oh, did you find the two bearings, top and bottom? Don't forget them when you install the rudder.

When I installed mine I was able to fit it in position, then I looked a line under it and connected the line the jib winches. I used the winches to raise the rudder up into position so the quadrant could be bolted back on.

Good luck,
Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

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post #26 of 48 Old 11-02-2011
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Barry's right. Getting the rudder back in can be a bear. I've found a small bottle jack works wonders. You can raise the rudder slowly under complete control. Last time I did it this way entirely on my own. Jacked it into position and then went up to put the bolt into the top fitting.
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post #27 of 48 Old 11-02-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
Contrary to what I believed above, there is NO bore reducer used in this application.
Bore reducers are a band-aid approach to fix an issue that should have been fixed by having a matching prop bore tape and shaft sized to that prop. There is no need for one so why complicate matters by installing one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
The guy that I dealt with at NE Prop, said that a propeller shaft zinc would take care of any galvanic corrosion. (I don't think so...)
That is the whole purpose of the shaft zinc. Millions of boats out there with manganese bronze props and SS shafts and the only times you see real issues is when there is a DC leak issue, a hot marina or the owner painted the prop with copper bottom paint.. If you keep up with the zinc you'll be more than fine. Just be aware that the PSS, as can GFO packings, may accelerate zinc erosion as the carbon/graphite is very, very noble..

Even your bronze shaft was connected to a steel coupling, which was then connected to an engine with, steel, aluminum, brass, copper and other alloys in it.. That's why you use a zinc..

Even if you try and isolate a shaft with a drive saver you are going outside ABYC P-06 suggested practice, if your engine is ship ground, as most are..

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post #28 of 48 Old 11-02-2011
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rudders don't have drain holes.. we drill em!

Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club.
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My last project!
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My boat is sold!
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post #29 of 48 Old 11-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Unhappy The Rudder

Here is a picture of the beast: (NO Comments about the crap in my garage - OK?)


About two hours ago I put it on a bathroom scale and it weighed in at exactly 200lbs!

Then, I tipped it over, and out poured about gallon of water, and I could hear the water sloshing around inside.

It seems that water is getting in around the rudder post (here;

- the reddish stuff is not rust, but waterproof grease injected into the Zerk fitting when I lubed the rudder shaft). Water was apparently travelling down to fill the rudder from the bottom. (a 3rd water tank?)

I assume that that ring is the bearing that a previous poster referred to. I can only find one, however....

I have since stored the rudder with the post oriented horizontally, and the leading edge down (ie. rudder pointing up). I think that in the last two hours another gallon of water has since drained out of it.

The plan is to let the rudder dry out over the winter, and then to seal around it in the spring with a tube of 4200.

Last edited by eherlihy; 11-02-2011 at 07:29 PM.
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post #30 of 48 Old 11-02-2011
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Wow! It's these kind of threads that make this forum invaluable!

Tempest
Sabre 34
Morgan, NJ
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