Yes It's bad but what are the real risks? - SailNet Community

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Old 11-14-2011
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Yes It's bad but what are the real risks?

This is a keel bolt on a Catalina 25.
The other bolts look about the same.
I'm pretty sure Catalina just has you drill new holes and twist in some big lag screws so the fix is easy.

Do keels ever really fall off on these old boats. I know they do on new performance boats.
I can't remember a keel falling off. Rigs fall down yes.
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Old 11-14-2011
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I read an article somewhere, (Crusing World maybe?) a few years ago about a couple sailing the world in a 30-something foot Beneteau. They arranged to have the keel bolts changed out at a yard somewhere, shipped out the parts, called the yard ahead of their arrival, etc. The yard took the nuts off all the keel bolts, and to everyone's surprise, the keel didn't budge. It took them somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple days to pry the thing off. It was bonded with a load of 5200. I'm sure you'll get more than a few cautionary tales here from folks who have seen issues with (non-racing boat) keels, but I think they tend to be stuck on there pretty well.

I know the Sailnet crowd is a conservative bunch when it comes to issues like this, but assuming you aren't doing anything more than daysailing the thing, I think you're going to be okay for a while until you can get it properly addressed. It would also almost certainly be an issue come resale time. If you're really in doubt, get yourself a suveyor.

And more importantly, don't take my thoughts as a green light to ignore the issue.

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Old 11-14-2011
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If they used 5200....

How many bolts are there? What size?

The keel on a Catalina 25 weighs 1900 lbs according to Sailboat Data.
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Old 11-14-2011
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The fix would be to drill in some lag screws? Then why would those cruisers have to take off their 5200-bonded keel, why not just drill a hole, screw in the lag screws, and get going no?
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Old 11-14-2011
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Hot dipped galvanized lag screws? Doubt silicon bronze is available. Stainless can pit very badly in this application.
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Old 11-14-2011
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When we did "Kyrie's" keel, I had to use a sawsall to get the keel to separate.
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Old 11-14-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterchech View Post
The fix would be to drill in some lag screws? Then why would those cruisers have to take off their 5200-bonded keel, why not just drill a hole, screw in the lag screws, and get going no?
I wish I had a good answer for that. I think it was a case of more money than sense.
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Old 11-14-2011
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Lag bolts! Go to the source - Catalina, designer, engineer AND surveyor. There's no discussion about where you sail and under what conditions - isn't that important? Conservative? When the crap hits the fan you can expect the band-aid your considering MIGHT JUST BE A PROBLEM.
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Old 11-15-2011
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Sorry my Friend. This isn't where you want a band-aid. If you are on a nice warm lake in Texas or Florida, perhaps the need is not quite so pressing, if you don't mind the retrieval cost they charge you to remove your boat from the lake bottom. This is a BIG DEAL. You should fix it. You should fix it right. At the minimum, eight, twelve inch long, 1 inch dia. threaded stainless rods, the keel drilled and tapped, then the rods encapsulated in epoxy by filling the holes before they are screwed in. Then 1/4" 2X2 stainless washers nuts and lock washers tightened to around 90 to 100 ft. lbs. anyway. And that would be the minimum. Better you take rugosa's advice over mine, and Catalina will give you the best, and probably the only advise you should heed. I've been told they are most helpful.
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Old 11-15-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomandKarens34 View Post
At the minimum, eight, twelve inch long, 1 inch dia. threaded stainless rods, the keel drilled and tapped, then the rods encapsulated in epoxy by filling the holes before they are screwed in. Then 1/4" 2X2 stainless washers nuts and lock washers tightened to around 90 to 100 ft. lbs. anyway. And that would be the minimum.
This is major overkill - we're talking about a Catalina 25! Just by way of comparison, my Columbia 43 - 10,200 Lb keel has 10 X 3/4" keel bolts.

Is the keel on a Cat 25 even 12" deep? No matter, you'd be 1/2 way through it no matter what.

Call Catalina and follow their advice.
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