SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Grab Rail Attachment

5K views 14 replies 10 participants last post by  JALaman 
#1 · (Edited)
How do I securely attach my grab rails to cabin/deck top....?

I have made up some rails from Cumaru and want to attach to cabin top , looks like there were some rails there at one point but not there now to use as example..

No corresponding holes in cabin ceiling, so must be bolted/screwed from top..?

Do I just drill thru glass into core..? Toggle bolts..? Some sort of drill out and reinforce...?

And should they be removeable..? or glue and seal them with 5200..?

I'm hoping to cover up the existing holes with new rails...
 

Attachments

See less See more
2
#2 ·
I would probably lag screw them from underneath, two at each attach point to the cabin top. Through bolting would be stronger, with a nut plate epoxied unde the cabin, but then you need to drill out the handrail and recess the bolt head to plug it. Lots of work. In either case, the holes through the cabin top need to be over drilled, filled with epoxy, then redrilled to the proper size, allowing the epoxy to seal the core. There are plentynof threads on this site on how to bed with butyl tape. Do not glue down with 5200.

Before I did any of this, I would finish cleaning up and painting that cabin top. You shouldn't just cover old holes, you should seal them first.
 
#9 ·
I concur with Minnewaska. I have lagged mine from underneath with no problems ever. Ironically, the only handrails I ever had trouble with (cracking & splitting) were through bolted.

There are several requirements and advantages to lagging from below;

The rails can be completely pre-finished prior to installing.

They can be easily removed to re-finish (as long as you don't use an adhesive sealant).

Select a lag screw whose major diameter is close to 1/2 the width of the handrail.

You MUST carefully drill them so the lags cut properly into the wood - undersized holes will split them, oversize holes will strip and release the handrail at a VERY inopportune time. The holes should be sized to correspond with the minor diameter of the screw.

Use large fender washers under the screw head.

If the cabintop is cored in the area you are mounting them, you MUST pot the holes to seal them and eliminate crush.

The cabintop hole must correspond to the major diameter of the screw.

Countersink both the top of the hole in the deck and the hole in the handrail to create a small O-ring of sealant around each screw - this will help ensure they stay sealed.

Finally, if you sand all markings off the screw heads and polish them and the fender washers they will look very good below - at least to my somewhat "tech" eye.
 
#3 ·
I would through-bolt with a flush-cut plug to cover the hole on the top-side. Skip the adhesive-type bedding compound and use a butyl-type bedding compound to seal around each bolt set into a chamfered-edge hole in the deck, a-la MaineSail and others.

Although I didn't retrofit through-bolts on my screwed-from-the-underside factory-installed handrails, I did add a chamfer to the deck holes and used butyl when I was revarnishing and dealing with a few leaky mount points.

That was 3 years ago and I haven't had a problem with water intrusion since.
 
#4 ·
I agree with the cleaning and painting the cabin top, but I think I should get my mechanical attachment points secure and in place before final finish work...

I didn't mean just "cover" the old mounts, I'm thinking I should dig out the old silicone/caulk (?) and epoxy the holes shut then drill and secure new attachment points.. then do the top refinish before final mounting of rails..

What if I drilled say 3/4" hole from the top, thru core, just to ceiling...then epoxied in 3/4" wood dowels...and used them as attachment points (screwed down rail from top) ??

That should make the rails "removeable" for refinishing, secure enough not to pull out if I "grab" one... and not have visable anchors on the ceiling from the inside...?

Or am I missing something here..?
 
#5 ·
I agree with the cleaning and painting the cabin top, but I think I should get my mechanical attachment points secure and in place before final finish work...

I didn't mean just "cover" the old mounts, I'm thinking I should dig out the old silicone/caulk (?) and epoxy the holes shut then drill and secure new attachment points.. then do the top refinish before final mounting of rails..

What if I drilled say 3/4" hole from the top, thru core, just to ceiling...then epoxied in 3/4" wood dowels...and used them as attachment points (screwed down rail from top) ??

That should make the rails "removeable" for refinishing, secure enough not to pull out if I "grab" one... and not have visable anchors on the ceiling from the inside...?

Or am I missing something here..?
Visible anchors are okay. My screws have finishing washers (like used in kitchen cabinets) to smooth the transition between the screw head and the ceiling.

Some boats have matching grab rails installed in the cabin, so that there's no fasteners to see, but you might not have the room or the inclination to do that.
 
#6 ·
Agree with using butyl rather than adhesives.. overall I think you'd be better with bolt ons than screws, but you'll need to cut/buy plugs (since you must have some scraps a good plug cutter would be a great investment.. your plugs will match)

Handrails above and below make sense, all bolted together through the same deck penetrations.

As for sealing old holes, definitely remove old caulking, then cut out some of the core around the hole (maybe redrill slightly larger too, to ensure there's no lingering silicone) and fill with thickened epoxy. If looks like you're in for a paint job anyhow, so once faired the repairs should disappear (of course if you're reusing the original locations the repairs will be mostly under the rails once installed).

As mentioned, Mainesail has some excellent tips and tricks for this kind of work. Check it out.
 
#7 ·
Yep, saw the Maine Sail thread on Buytl tape, looks like a better option than adhesives or silicone..

I have the plug cutters so that's the easy part... I also have inside hand rails, but they are not in the same placement (inside) to match where I want them outside, and I didn't cut my rail/mounts to match...So it looks like I'll have two sets of holes in the cabin top.
 
#8 ·
I would finish the cabin top first, otherwise, taping and working around and under the rails will be a pain. If you are concerned about ease of removal, I would screw from underneath. If you drill through from the top, you will need to remove and replace the plug each time. Caps can be made for the screw head inside the cabin if they are not hidden by a liner.

Again, bolting through would be best for strength. When you first assemble, you can pre-glue the bolt to the washer and then glue the washer to the cabin top as you tightened. In the future, you will have a permanent nut plate and can R&R from above.
 
#10 ·
Or you can through bolt with the bolts going from top to bottom. I would drill the holes a bit under size in the rails and thread the bolts in, possibly with a drop or two of epoxy. Enlarge the cabin top holes to allow easy passage of the bolts. Treat the cabintop holes as suggested, potted with epoxy and with a chamfer on the edge to hold an "O" ring of sealant. Matching plugs on the rails will cover the bolt heads and never need to be removed. Butyl is an excellent choice for bedding. On the inside a fender washer and either a nylok or an acorn nut can be used with the bolt trimmed to the correct length.

This creates the strength of through bolting with easy re-bedding for future maintenance. And you will never doubt their strength.
 
#11 ·
Long as we're on this subject.... What kind of paint should I use for the top...?

Do I need to strip off the old paint (it's been painted before) how will I know if I'll have compatabilty issues...?
 
#12 ·
i don't know about the handrails because i've never had mine off my py26 but when i changed the sliding hatch rails apparently the nuts are imbeded and i had no trouble rethreading the original machine screws i would assume the hand/grab rails are the same,if the screws are not there and you want to use the same holes you might try retapping btw the cabin is cored so you could fill in the old holes and use a long drill,drilling all the way thru into the cabin,put in your new screws with the nuts countersunk from the inside then use plastic cover plugs,i've saw that done and it doesn't look bad,seems like jay moran did a piece on that very thing[your situation]you might try the paceship archives
 
#13 ·
Better late than never, I guess. I used to own PY26 # 129 (1977) and changed the hand rails a couple of years ago.

The handrails, (as per the factory) were drilledthrough and the screws inserted from the top and the holes plugged.

Inside the cabin, you should see some holes in the ceiling where there used to be some grab rails as well. There ling up with holes for the outside rails and are through bolted. Everything else was simply screwed into the cabin top. I did use 4200 to bed the rails.

I had zero issues with them while I owned the boat.

Any other PY26 questions, don't hesitate

Matt
 
#14 ·
My handrails were attached from underneath with wood screws. I would remove them every few years for refinishing. I worried about the screw holes getting stripped or enlarged or the wood weakened by the screws being removed and reinstalled (relatively) frequently.
The solution was to install stainless threaded inserts in each hole in the rail and then using 1/4" machine screws from underneath. This combines some of the advantages of through bolting with the ease of using lag bolts from underneath. The large outside threads on the inserts get a good bite on the wood, and the inside threads hold the machine screw/bolt better than a nut (longer threaded portion.) And there are no plugs or caps on the rails to replace each time they are removed.
 
#15 ·
Did anybody identify a part number for the AMF Paceship PY26 rub rail replacement? My '78 PY26 rub rail is a real mess and I want to replace it. If I had access to the boat (Stored in Mich, but live in PA...) I could take a piece off and trace it for Barbour or Taco. Any help will be appreciated! I really want to get this fixed.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top