G10 backing plates - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 18 Old 12-31-2011
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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Fender washers are available thin or thick as are standard washers.
Very true.

When thick, they very nearly are backing plates. For most loads, even quite large, they are very adequate. Still, I often fabricate aluminum or FRP backing plates when substantial fender washers would do as well; if I'm in the shop, scrap is free, the time is minimal with a drill press, band saw and grinder at hand, and it makes for a neater job with fewer parts and less cost.

When thin, far more common, they give only a false impression of security when the load becomes extreme.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




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post #12 of 18 Old 12-31-2011
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fender washers

I was deck assembly lead hand on 27, 33, 36T for 4.5 years and we never cut corners because Raymond Wall (designer) and Matt Sterling (plant manager) kept tight control. You should expect factory installed deck hardware on your Merlin to be bolted through solid frp or areas cored in plywood. Thick fender washers were standard also. The factory standard continued into the Tony Castro designs too. May not be the case where an owner or yard has added hardware.
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post #13 of 18 Old 12-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rugosa View Post
I was deck assembly lead hand on 27, 33, 36T for 4.5 years and we never cut corners because Raymond Wall (designer) and Matt Sterling (plant manager) kept tight control. You should expect factory installed deck hardware on your Merlin to be bolted through solid frp or areas cored in plywood. Thick fender washers were standard also. The factory standard continued into the Tony Castro designs too. May not be the case where an owner or yard has added hardware.

And THANK YOU !!! Over 80% of our boats deck hardware is un-rebedded and none of it leaks or has leaked in 32 years (almost 33 now)! . Even when I pulled the chain plates at year 31 they were still bone dry.. You guys built a hell of a product..! Probably could have saved some money on fasteners on the hull deck joint...

Genny track at year 32 and hull /deck joint in the background... Overkill is good!


P.S. Do you have any pics from the factory from when you were there? I'd love to see some layup and assembly pics...

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-Maine Sail / CS-36T


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post #14 of 18 Old 01-01-2012
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Thanks for the compliment Maine Sail - sorry, no pics from the factory unless they are at the bottom of a trunk full to the top with photos & negatives. Do have some pics from working on Canada One and True North.

Butyl was the tried and true bedding material for almost everything except ports, phenolic main hatch slides, aluminum mast collar ring, few other things. I bet the Beckson ports leak on most of them after a while, tried all sorts of sealants. The optional Gebo fixed ports (I think most of them went to Europe) with tempered glass were bedded in butyl too. BTW, we rigged two 36T's as cutters with club foots. One went to Vancouver, still in touch with one of the owners although she is now back on Lake Ontario.

What year is your 36? How long yours? Any major problems? Email keithmoore@cogeco.ca if you like. Cheers!
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post #15 of 18 Old 01-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajay73 View Post
Quarter inch would be fine. Aluminum is what is normally used and a lot cheaper than G10. I am using G10 when I replace some seacocks and through hulls but I will epoxy it in place.
+1 on the aluminium. I have been using 1/4" aluminium for years and it works great. Very easy to work - cuts with wood tools for the most part. You don't get fiberglass itch when working it either. It's a lot cheaper than G10 if you get some scrap sheet at a metal recycler. I got a 3' X 2' hunk for $8 and I've still got some left after 2 boats. If you take some care making them - rounded corners and edges and buff them before installing them, they look very nice as well - if you appreciate the "mechanical" look.

One factor often overlooked is that it takes shorter fasteners than thick G10 or plywood backers - long fasteners are much more expensive and can even be hard to come by.

I still use fender washers between the nuts and the backing plate.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #16 of 18 Old 01-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
And THANK YOU !!! Over 80% of our boats deck hardware is un-rebedded and none of it leaks or has leaked in 32 years (almost 33 now)! . Even when I pulled the chain plates at year 31 they were still bone dry.. You guys built a hell of a product..! Probably could have saved some money on fasteners on the hull deck joint...

Genny track at year 32 and hull /deck joint in the background... Overkill is good!


P.S. Do you have any pics from the factory from when you were there? I'd love to see some layup and assembly pics...
A trick I have used successfully for backing tracks or other rows of fasteners is to get an appropriate piece of aluminium channel - at least as wide as the track and at least as deep as the exposed fasteners. Cut to length - a bit longer than the track, taper the ends of the sides of the channel then clamp the track and channel together. Drill through the end mounting hole on the track and through the aluminium - voila, a perfectly aligned hole. Bolt the two together temporarily to maintain the alignment and continue down the length of the track. A drill press is nice for this part of the job. I drop another bolt in periodically to ensure the alignment is maintained.

When all the holes are drilled, separate the track and channel - you now have a matched pair, a one piece backing plate, a recess for the fasteners to reduce scalp tearout and a good looking, custom backing setup for your genny track. To make it REALLY pretty, polish it before installing it.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #17 of 18 Old 01-02-2012
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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
A trick I have used successfully for backing tracks or other rows of fasteners is to get an appropriate piece of aluminium channel - at least as wide as the track and at least as deep as the exposed fasteners. Cut to length - a bit longer than the track, taper the ends of the sides of the channel then clamp the track and channel together. Drill through the end mounting hole on the track and through the aluminium - voila, a perfectly aligned hole. Bolt the two together temporarily to maintain the alignment and continue down the length of the track. A drill press is nice for this part of the job. I drop another bolt in periodically to ensure the alignment is maintained.

When all the holes are drilled, separate the track and channel - you now have a matched pair, a one piece backing plate, a recess for the fasteners to reduce scalp tearout and a good looking, custom backing setup for your genny track. To make it REALLY pretty, polish it before installing it.

After installing a much longer adjustable track, I wanted to cover the bolts for aesthetic reasons and to reduce chance of nicking myself on the exposed bolts.
At appropriate distances I used longer bolts, then built some wood channels that would fit over the bolts, but had thru holes at the location of the long bolts. At the long bolt locations, I used barrel nuts (not exactly sure of the term, have seen them binned as blind nuts or sex bolts) to hold the channel in place. Due to the curvature of the track I made 3 channels, maybe could have gotten by with 2. Really just needed one barrel nut per channel, but ended up using one at each end.
Had to cut the long bolts to length to allow the barrel nuts to tighten, but no big deal; they don't have to be super tight because they're only holding the channel in place, not the track.
Turned out ok. The barrel nuts can be removed very quickly for inspection.
The pics show the port side. The starboard side has a shelf much closer to the bolts where scratching is more likely to occur.
Attached Thumbnails
track1.jpg   track3.jpg   track4.jpg  
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-02-2012
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G-10 makes great backing plate (6-8mm should suffice), however overkill. 1/8-1/4" aluminum is much cheaper , just as easy to work with and will do the same job. I typically lay up carbon plate and use G-10 rod as a compression post for ea. thru-bolt (drilled out for the bolt, of course).

Chuck

"A Small Sailing Craft is not only Beautiful, it is Seductive and Full of Strange Promise and the Hint of Trouble"
E.B. White; "The Sea and the Wind that Blows"
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