Wiring of a 1980 Catalina 27 - Page 3 - SailNet Community

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  #21  
Old 01-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
Yep Stu, you are right. I am using the 1 B 2 switch to control charging and use.


1. I have thought of moving the wire from the C lug to the 2 lug of the battery switch, but the system that I have now is working, and,

2. I have the upgraded Leece Neville 90 amp alternator, which also has a semi-smart regulator. If there is no load, it shuts off before the diodes pop.
1. Moving the wire from the C to the 2 post is a very good idea conceptually. I did this for a few years until I installed my new alternator and regulator, BUT I had an unusual arrangement: I had TWO wires from my C post - one to the starter solenoid, another one to the AO. There was no wire between the AO and the solenoid. Why not? Because the PO had those two SEPARATE wires from the C post. Before you switch it, think it through.

2. Maine Sail pretty well covered it, simply not true related to AO.
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Last edited by Stu Jackson; 01-02-2012 at 11:33 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-02-2012
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Stu

I would wire the Echo between the banks directly as well. It is probably the most appropriate schematic I have to show how it is done - I didn't think one from a 50' twin engine powerboat would help much.
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  #23  
Old 01-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Not one that would apply to your specific boat. You shouldn't copy another boat's system wire by wire - for one it may very well not apply to your boat and for another you will understand your system a lot more if you create a plan for yourself. I think it would be a good idea if after a bit of reading you drew what you think you should and post it here for a critique.

Here is a good example and it does show an Echo Charge wired between the #1 and #2 posts on the main switch. Wire sizes may not apply in your case.
From the reading I've completed the recommendation is that with the battery combiner you don't need a battery switch. You install a separate parallel switch between the two positives from each battery (which each have switches)which allows the batteries to be combined or substituted in an emergency. House and starter circuits are independent. Alternator charges the house battery. My guess is that your amp draws would be much higher than mine so I guess yours wold be overkill for my simple lower amp requirements.
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Old 01-02-2012
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You do not need the extra starting switch shown in the schematic I posted. You do need either the 1/2/both/off switch shown or alternatively a separate switch for each battery bank. While the combiner (ACR or Echo Charge) will take care of the charging automatically you do need to be able to isolate each battery bank.

That schematic doesn't show my boat - it is one of many I have on hand, many more complicated.
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Old 01-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajay73 View Post
From the reading I've completed the recommendation is that with the battery combiner you don't need a battery switch. You install a separate parallel switch between the two positives from each battery (which each have switches)which allows the batteries to be combined or substituted in an emergency. House and starter circuits are independent. Alternator charges the house battery. My guess is that your amp draws would be much higher than mine so I guess yours wold be overkill for my simple lower amp requirements.
You may not be understanding the concept of the 1-2-B switch. Simplicity in itself.

Amp draws have nothing to do with switching concepts, only wire and fuse sizing.

Your "idea" is not new, and was proposed 15 years ago by West Marine. Back then I thought it was nuts and still do. Why replace one simple 1-2-B switch with three switches? Few people have used that idea because of its complexity.

We've kinda given you all the modern thinking on this issue based on your original question. What you choose to do with it is up to you. Your boat, your choice, but I can't think of anything easier to wire, understand and use than Option 1 in my links to you.

The one that Brian showed is Option 2.

You might want to think about it some more.

Good luck.
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Last edited by Stu Jackson; 01-03-2012 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 01-03-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
You may not be understanding the concept of the 1-2-B switch. Simplicity in itself.

Amp draws have nothing to do with switching concepts, only wire and fuse sizing.

Your "idea" is not new, and was proposed 15 years ago by West Marine. Back then I thought it was nuts and still do. Why replace one simple 1-2-B switch with three switches? Few people have used that idea because of its complexity.

We've kinda given you all the modern thinking on this issue based on your original question. What you choose to do with it is up to you. Your boat, your choice, but I can't think of anything easier to wire, understand and use than Option 1 in my links to you.

The one that Brian showed is Option 2.

You might want to think about it some more.

Good luck.
"Amp draws have nothing to do". Didn't mean to imply they did-my error. I was just addrerssing mitempo's comment about how each system's amp draws would be different and that I need to develop my own layout and do the math by adding up the loads and determine wire/fuse size. I just tacked that final thought at the end my other comments. Sorry for the confusion.

"Your "idea" is not new". Not my idea. That was from Don Casey's book on page 120 on battery switching. I'll paraphrase him here but he says that with that setup you don't have to make any decisions on switch positions under normal condidions. Just get on the boat and go. And by normal he says house and starter switches are on and the parallel switch is off. I'll quote him directly, "By keeping the starter/starter-battery circuit independent from the house circuit, you never have to change any switch settings while you are aboard. A separate paralleling switch allows the batteries to be combined or substituted in an emergency. The alternator is connected to the house bank. Starting battery charging is accomplished with a battery combiner that connects the batteries when it senses charging voltage". This may not be the latest thinking in your view, or others here, but I just want to understand the componenets of a solid system. My original post did state I wanted up to date thinking but maybe I overemphasized that point. Mostly I want to understand components of a solid, adequately sized, system be that with state of the art components or not so state of the art. Casey's book was copyrighted in 1999 so maybe it's not too far out of date.

Through all this discussion I guess I'm coming to the conclusion that Casey's book maybe my best and less painful path.

Last edited by Ajay73; 01-03-2012 at 08:03 AM.
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Casey's suggestions are not really out of date but they do have their faults. From the quote above I assume Casey is recommending 3 separate switches - a switch for each bank and a parallel switch. This is over complicated and adds expense where it is not needed. I do agree with Casey's charging of the start battery with a combiner of some type - the Echo Charge is my preference.

You already have a 1/2/both/off switch that will do all you want. House becomes #1, the other battery #2. The scenario that makes the most sense is to treat the start battery as an emergency battery and start on the house bank. When you arrive switch to #1, when you leave switch to off. The other battery is there when needed and always at full charge.

There is no good reason to ever combine the batteries when starting the engine. If one bank is not able to start switch to the other bank. Combining a good bank with a dead one is not a good plan. The 1/2/both/off switch will allow you to charge both banks in the event that the combiner/Echo Charge fails by switching to the both position.

Casey's idea accomplishes the same result - but it does sell more switches in the process as well as making things more complicated than necessary.
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  #28  
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Brian said it better than I did. Everything he said is covered in my earlier links.

The issue is this with three switches: since you don't use them very often to switch battery sources, you will need to write down a scheme for the switching. I would if I had that setup.

You don't need to do that with a 1-2-B switch.

Even I can figure out a 1-2-B switch!

What we're trying to explain to you is how to KISS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Combining a good bank with a dead one is not a good plan. The 1/2/both/off switch will allow you to charge both banks in the event that the combiner/Echo Charge fails by switching to the both position.

Casey's idea accomplishes the same result - but it does sell more switches in the process as well as making things more complicated than necessary.
And please note that using B should only be done when charging. This, too, is included in my earlier links.
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Last edited by Stu Jackson; 01-03-2012 at 12:16 PM.
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajay73 View Post

If I understand the implication of your 30 year old comment right I'm not looking to reproduce the original wiring plan. I was looking for something more up-to-date. And I'm not looking for something special just for me. What I have are just the very most common of circuits. What I liked about the referenced link was that it was clearer than most of the diagrams I see, written for a layman, so to speak. Most of the discussions about wiring seem confusing to me. But maybe I think it's more complicated than it really is.
Sorry if I misunderstood--I inferred that you were looking for something specific to you and your boat because you stated you already have a diagram you like, yet you were looking for something more. I don't think you can take any wiring diagram and use it as is on your boat. Some pieces will apply, others may need to be different. BTW, I took the advice of many you've heard from here and went with the alternator always charging the house bank with an Echo Charger keeping a back up batt charged. I love the On-Off simplicity of this.
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Old 01-03-2012
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One more thing - make sure that you solder all connections so that they don't vibrate loose.

< runs away quickly >

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