I bought a 30 footer for 500.00..... - SailNet Community

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  #1  
Old 10-15-2003
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

Its a Schock, Santana 30 R/C, 1980 model. I won a Salvage Auction. The Boat crashed into a rock reef in southern California. Here is the damage report:
a) The keel was ripped out of the keel stub.
b) The rudder was broken
c) The prop and shaft were bent/damaged
As you can tell all structural damage was below the water line. The other problem is, the boat tipped while the salvage team was pulling it off the rocks and the boat filled up with water and sunk for a short time before it was craned onto the salvage barge. The boat will be here this weekend. I am having it shipped from California. I will have to go through everything and start to make a repair schedule. I have been employed by a major Helocopter Company where I learned Composite Fabrication which included vacuum bagging fiberglass, kevlar and graphite layups and repairs. I have also worked with my Dad and restored 3 Sailboats in the past 15 years. So I know I can handle all the structural repair on this boat. The area where I will have problems is with the restoration of the various electrical and mechanical systems on this boat like the 13 h.p. Volvo, the stove and electronics ect. ect... As far as I know the main damage will be stuctural. I already found a Company that will make me a custom Keel for $3,000.00 dollars, so I hope to improve this boats performance so it will be a better racer than it was before. I have 6 Brownell Sailboat stands coming in a few days so I will be all set up to cradle the boat securely. I never thought I would win the bid on a racey 30 footer for 500 bucks, but I guess the missing keel scared everyone away. This boat sleeps 6, has a nice Galley and head and is a very fast looking design that can easily compete with J/30s, Tartan 10s and the likes of other fine racing Yachts. It will cost me about $2,000.00 to get the boat delivered to Texas (where I live) and $200.00 to have the mast popped off, and $200.00 to crane the boat onto the deliverers trailer and $150.00 to get it off the trailer once it gets to Texas, also the boat stands cost me 500 bucks. Anyway, you can see that this project is going to cost some decent money to do it the right way. In closing I will just say I am excited and think this projest will be challenging and fun, and once I put it on the local lake I will get great pleasure when I smoke some other racing yachts at our local yacht club. I will be very open to anyones advice and past experiances in Yacht re-building /repair. John.
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Old 10-15-2003
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

John232:
Sounds to me as though you have the experience, and the “room to spend”, to do a nice re-fit. Good luck!

As a 1980 vintage, you will likely find the wiring to have been inadequate, and having (additionally) been submerged, I’d consider replacing all of it with modern, properly sized and terminated Tinned wire. The electronics are likely “toast”. Check out “Ohm’s Law & Boats” @ www.sailnet.com , under Gear & Maintenance.

The stove can probably be cleaned and put back into service (it’s not electric, is it?).

The engine (was not running when submerged) should be dismantled, examined, and cleaned (flush /w fresh water, then immediately soak in kerosene). Others may provide better, more detailed advice. Also see www.dieselclinic.com. The 13HP Volvo might be somewhat underpowered for a 30 footer, but should be OK for inland lake work?

Unless you’re very adventuresome, I’d send the Alternator & Starter to a good Alternator Shop (marine experience preferred, but automotive might be OK).

You’ll want to carefully examine the fuel tank, and lines. Also take careful note of the condition of the (prop’ & rudder) packing glands, and the shaft strut.

You’ll want to carefully examine HOW the keel came off, and what damage it did as it did so. Look for damage around the keel bolt holes, the corners of the sump, the stringers, and the floor boards. Cracked floorboards can tell you a lot about the etiology of the breakeaway, and it’s likely consequences. Also check all visible “tabbing” and structural bonding connections. The “racking” that occurs when hoisting (full of water) may have disjointed some of these connections. Now will be the time to upgrade backing plates & etc, if required.
Obviously, these structural repairs lie well within the scope of your stated expertise.

Perhaps you should “sound” the entire hull, prior to investing too much more into her. She was, after all, a (nearly) 25 year old, prior to wrecking.

Good luck - and keep us up to date. I''m certain that you''ll get lots of advice and opinion, as you develope (& ask) specific questions.

Best regards,
Gord
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Old 10-15-2003
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GordMay is on a distinguished road
I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

Oops! "Ohm''s Law & Boats" is NOT on Sainet. If you send a number or address, I can Email or fax you a copy.
Regards,
Gord
Gord@Boatpro.zzn.com
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Old 10-15-2003
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

Without seeing the boat or knowing how long it has been underwater, I am not sure how to advise you or even whether to congratulate you or not.

The boat in question was designed as an early IOR era race boat. By 1980 these were very obsolete as racers as boats like the J-30, Kirby 30 and J-29 had made these older IOR derived boats pretty useless for racing. Their cramped interiors and poor sailing characteristics made them less than ideal as cruisers as well.

In really perfect shape, these boats have a value somewhere between $15,000 and $20000 (but typically closer to the $15K end of the scale.) Once a boat has been this badly damaged, no matter how well it is rebuilt, it is worth something less than a boat that was never damaged. In this case, I would guess that if perfectly repaired and you disclosed the damage to the buyer (which I would recommend doing if I were you) the boat in perfect shape is worth maybe $10-12K.

When you look at what has to be done and assuming you do all of the work yourself, you could easily spend several times the value of the boat. This is no small project.


You have not mention sails so I assume that you will need new sails. New a set of sails for this boat would be close to $10-12K. Used they would be half to a third of that but you would no longer have a boat in perfect shape. This is a 25 year old boat so chainplates, mast step and associated suporting structure, standing and running rigging are beyond their useful lifespan. Depending on how long the engine was under water and what if anything was done when it was recovered you could need to do a top to bottom engine rebuild including starter, alternator, bearings, and valve guides etc. Given the cost of the parts for older Volvos replacement may be cheaper and if not pickled before now, then the engine may be beyond a rebuild.
You can expect to replace worn out or out of date deck, galley, and head hardware. You can figure that the upholstery, safety gear, and electronics are shot. You can expect to rewire the boat and replace electrical and plumbing system components that need repairs, upgrading to modern standards or replacement.
Besides the obvious damage, you can expect some blister, fatigue, displaced bulkhead, hull deck joint or deck coring problems. Replacing a keel without having an old keel for salvage value costs somewhere around half to 2/3 of the total value of this boat when you factor in shipping the keel. If the stove is pressure alcohol, it is probably not worth rebuilding even if you can find the parts. If it is propane the system needs to be rebuilt but that can be done. And that does not include the hull repairs.

All told this is a list of work that is close to $30K. Unless you are looking for a project and don''t care how much you spend on it vs what the finished boat is worth, my best advice is to cut your losses. Absent that I would advise to to carefully research costs, set a budget and stick to it.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Old 10-15-2003
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

John,

I had a long harangue about this project becoming a money pit, which I''ve deleted and offer only encouragement that, after you have your hull in hand, to do a realistic, conservative budget of total renovation costs before spending real money on this boat. Get local professional advice on those items outside your pesonal expertise, and don''t assume anything.

Good luck and one suggestion - you might go with an original keel so you don''t eliminate the one-sign market when you want to move on to something else.

Good luck.
PS - it''s confusing that a local Santana 30 owner didn''t buy this boat for parts as any useable components, such as winches, should be worth $500.
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Old 10-16-2003
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

Wooo..Wooo..Wooo.. Back off a little . I said this was a project boat. Not some money making scheme. I enjoy restoring old cars and boats from time to time. I could care less if anything but the engine works on this boat. Once I get the structural dammage done I will restore the boat to as original as possible and I may even strenthen the weak areas to my high standards so I have a boat that I can trust and be confident and proud to own and sail. Also, I really do like this design because it has alot of sail area, good deck space, and a decent cabin lay-out, infact it has a much better lay-out than a Jboat in the same size in the same year. This is just a project with a means to an end that involves pleasure and a little club racing. I could use a little encouragement, if that is possible. Thank you very much. John.
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

I found out that the boat has new sails as of 2001, and has been up dated with alot of new rigging. and from what I can tell from the photos the boat was well taken care of. Also I haven''t found a Schock 30/30 for less than 22,000.
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Old 10-16-2003
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

I am sorry, I thought that you said the boat in question was a 1980 30 R. The 30R is a very different boat than the later 30/30''s. There was also a Schock Wavelength/ Schockwave 30 that was built around 1980. This was an extremely neat, but fragile design.

The 30/30''s were a more expensive boat with much better sailing capabilities but with an very basic interior that is pretty similar to a J-29. I think that 1982-83 was the first year that the 30/30 was in production. 30/30''s typically sell for somewhere a little over $20K but one that has been would certainly be worth substantially less.

My goal in my earlier post was not discourage you as much as to suggest that you carefully consider the project up front so that you don''t pour a lot of money into the boat only to find that you have spent more time and money than you could afford. Obviously the nearly new sails greatly increase the likelihood of a successful project.

Good luck. Respectfully,
Jeff
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Old 10-16-2003
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

Also sorry if my comments seems pessimistic, but the work outsatnding for this boat may make for quite a "project", perhaps sort of like how the Boston central artery project became the 14 billion dollar Big Dig. It may still be termed a project, but there''s no other one close to it''s final cost...
New sails is good news and removes one of the potential major expenses, leaving only how many...
FWIW (it''s free...)I again opine my personal observation from experience - the best you should expect from a boat is to actually get what you paid for.
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Old 10-17-2003
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I bought a 30 footer for 500.00.....

FWIW, I personally like to work on boats. I bought a "turnkey" boat, and still have replaced many of the systems--to get more functionality, to upgrade, etc. You have the structural work figured out, with your skills. Wiring and most other jobs are simple, just time-consuming. The rig and sails are nearly new.
Personally, I offer lots of encouragement. I think this is a project with a lot of potential satisfaction and pride built in. When you buy a used boat, say for $22K or whatever, half or more of the life of the various systems is gone. Most people sell a boat when things are about ready to crap out anyway. You will have a virtually new boat, set up the way you want, and you will know it inside and out.
So go for it. You are not looking for a profit or to make a ton of money, and you will undoubtedly not make any money. But you''ll end up with the boat you want, and who can beat $500 for a starting point?
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