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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #11  
Old 01-31-2012
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Anything else as far as maintaining this dinosaur would be greatly appreciated,,,,,,
Thanks,

Rick
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  #12  
Old 01-31-2012
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Caleb's right on the MMO. I think the biggest benefit is it's ability to loosen up carbon and varnish deposits on the valves and rings. It can often prevent or free up sticky valves in the Atomic 4, and can boost compression by freeing up the rings. I would think it would have the same benefits in the Palmer. It burns quite well (albeit smoky).
He's also right on avoiding ethanol (in the gas, not necessarily in the skipper). It does clean varnish out of the fuel system, but is awful at separating out of phase and getting water into the fuel. Loosening up the varnish can lead to lots of carb and filter plugging until the system gets cleaned out.
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Last edited by msmith10; 01-31-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2012
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I wasn't aware of the solvent characteristics of MMO. If Moyer recommends it that is about as good as it gets. 2 ounces in 5 gallons, about 1 in 300, is not a lot, doubt that at that ratio it would smoke much over normal. Not real familiar with the details of either engine except for their age. What works for the Atomic should work for the Palmer?

Dabnis
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2012
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Valve Seats

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
...had to go with stellite valve seat inserts and stainless valves, or maybe the reverse? It was a long time ago.

Dabnis
It was the reverse. Actually all you need is the hardened valve seat inserts to prevent valve seat errosion.The valved face has the stellite on it to increase valve life because of the heavy duty requirements of a marine or truck engine. The valve face without a hard seat to come up against it, actually pulls tiny bits of metal from the valve seat that it seals against and the valve gradually sinks into the valve seat metal. The lead acts kind of like a lubricant and prevents this errosion. If I were rebuilding an old engine for marine use, I would use sodium filled valves with stellite face, and hard seats.
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Old 02-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperiorGeezer View Post
I were rebuilding an old engine for marine use, I would use sodium filled valves with stellite face, and hard seats.
A while back I started a thread about the possibilities regarding hot rodding the A4 a bit to get some more torque but neither I, nor anyone else, thought of sodium valves.

A 6:1 C/R flathead with sodium valves. Vic Edelbrock must be turning in his grave.
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Old 02-02-2012
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Here are a few links for more info on the P60 used in sailboats: Palmer P60 Sticky Valves

Farmall Cub • View topic - WHAT OCTANE GAS IS BEST FOR CUB?
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperiorGeezer View Post
It was the reverse. Actually all you need is the hardened valve seat inserts to prevent valve seat errosion.The valved face has the stellite on it to increase valve life because of the heavy duty requirements of a marine or truck engine. The valve face without a hard seat to come up against it, actually pulls tiny bits of metal from the valve seat that it seals against and the valve gradually sinks into the valve seat metal. The lead acts kind of like a lubricant and prevents this errosion. If I were rebuilding an old engine for marine use, I would use sodium filled valves with stellite face, and hard seats.
Now I remember, you are right, sodium filled valves (how do they do that?),
and stellite inserts. That worked but the head continually warped even after having it faced and checking the deck. Finally pulled it out and replaced it with a Ford 302 V8.

Dabnis
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Old 02-02-2012
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I rebuilt a 1972 Ford 302 used in a one ton van with an RV built on it. The engine had sodium filled valves from the factory, but no hard seats. The amount of valve seat erosion made me wonder if the heads could be salvaged. Not a problem. It looked worse than it was and the new hard seats fit just fine. All of the sodium filled valves were reground and reused. Unleaded gasoline came out several years later. It must have taken at least ten years for the problem to develop. In a boat it might happen sooner since a lot of operators run boat engines at wide open throttle.
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Old 02-02-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperiorGeezer View Post
I rebuilt a 1972 Ford 302 used in a one ton van with an RV built on it. The engine had sodium filled valves from the factory, but no hard seats. The amount of valve seat erosion made me wonder if the heads could be salvaged. Not a problem. It looked worse than it was and the new hard seats fit just fine. All of the sodium filled valves were reground and reused. Unleaded gasoline came out several years later. It must have taken at least ten years for the problem to develop. In a boat it might happen sooner since a lot of operators run boat engines at wide open throttle.
It would appear that short of up grading the valve system the advice of MMO & lead additives may be about all one can do? If it runs well, maybe take a compression test once in a while, change oil often and hope for the best. It was my experience that valve related problems come on somewhat gradually so it shouldn't just quit running all of the sudden?

Dabnis
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2012
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Hard Seats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
It would appear that short of up grading the valve system the advice of MMO & lead additives may be about all one can do? If it runs well, maybe take a compression test once in a while, change oil often and hope for the best. It was my experience that valve related problems come on somewhat gradually so it shouldn't just quit running all of the sudden?

Dabnis
The lead substitute does work. I think amazon has it in bulk. Do a compression check to make sure everything is OK and then do routine maintenance. Also use premium fuel with no alcohol. Add a fuel stabilizer which means the fuel will not go stale on you for a year. Gasoline with alcohol is only good for several months. If you do need valve work, get a IHC (International Harvester) Cub tractor block and rebuild it if the engine has direct salt water cooling (no heat exchanger) because of corrosion and possible cracks. This is an L head engine which means the valves are in the engine block. Use the original crankshaft as it is has had machine work to match to the marine transmission. Parts are available on the internet.

Last edited by LakeSuperiorGeezer; 02-02-2012 at 08:50 PM. Reason: It's a flat head engine
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