Replace or Restore, Wheel or Tiller? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 02-05-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jack2 is on a distinguished road
Replace or Restore, Wheel or Tiller?

My wife and I have a 1970 Ohlson 38 with Edson wheel steering. The steering was installed in 1972. I have had the boat for two years and want to take it off shore. The emergency steering system is not at all adequate, and needs major retrofitting. In addition after speaking with the Edson rep. at Strictly Sail in Chicago it looks like we need to upgrade the steerer to a larger size to handle the stress of the vane steering. The question should we go back to a tiller at some undetermined cost (bearing in cockpit seat, fitting a tiller to the rudder shaft, a tiller) which should also address the problems with the emergency steering or should we replace the wheel system ($1000) and spend some undetermined amount of money building the emergency steering system?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 02-05-2012
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 15,354
Thanks: 88
Thanked 243 Times in 234 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Do you already have the vane? Perhaps a self steering system that uses its own rudder would be a better idea (Hydrovane, eg). That would remove the 'stress' of using your steering gear for that purpose, and may also deal with the emergency steering situation at the same time. They are expensive but compared to the total of these other projects it may balance out.

Going from wheel to tiller is certainly going to be less costly than going the other way.

FWIW if you do refit the existing steering we are very happy with the geared link-and-lever setup from Edson (as opposed to chain/wire/quadrant) - it's a pretty bullet proof setup.

CD-iģ Geared Steering Systems : Edson Marine Store
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 02-05-2012
Lake Superior Sailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Eagle River Wi.
Posts: 911
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Lake Superior Sailor is on a distinguished road
I love the tiller in my boat & would never change it, takes less room great positive feel! But; on your boat you have to know what you want & anything less might get you by?---Dale
__________________
Reluctant Lady
Cal 28, 1967
Lake Superior
Where God got it done!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 02-05-2012
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,617
Thanks: 5
Thanked 87 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 9
killarney_sailor is on a distinguished road
Some questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jack2 View Post
My wife and I have a 1970 Ohlson 38 with Edson wheel steering. The steering was installed in 1972. I have had the boat for two years and want to take it off shore. The emergency steering system is not at all adequate, and needs major retrofitting. In addition after speaking with the Edson rep. at Strictly Sail in Chicago it looks like we need to upgrade the steerer to a larger size to handle the stress of the vane steering. The question should we go back to a tiller at some undetermined cost (bearing in cockpit seat, fitting a tiller to the rudder shaft, a tiller) which should also address the problems with the emergency steering or should we replace the wheel system ($1000) and spend some undetermined amount of money building the emergency steering system?
What did the Edson guy mean when he said 'upgrade the steerer to a larger size to handle the stress of vane steering'? Seems like an odd statement. A Hydrovane or similar type does not use the primary system - you lock the wheel at an appropriate angle. We have a Monitor and I don't see that it puts extra stress on the system, although the wheel is constantly being adjusted, but only a little bit at a time.

The Hydrovane is its own rudder and can be used to steer the boat if there is a failure of the main syste. Monitor have an option that allows their system to act as an emergency steering system. Also, if you a below decks autopilot (not sure if it is in your plants), it can act as a back of steering system.
__________________
Back in the water in Grenada - with new main and #2 and cockpit canvas (Santa came early). Will spend the winter and early spring in the Caribbean and then head to Bermuda and the northeast US. Still trying to decide if we will bring the boat to Canada, either in 2015 or 2016.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 02-05-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jack2 is on a distinguished road
I am not sure why he thought that the monitor would stress the steering, but he said the older bronze steering shaft Edson's were not really up to the task.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 02-05-2012
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,217
Thanks: 33
Thanked 74 Times in 67 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
The wheel steering has been on there for 40 years without failure, and yet a salesguy at a boat show is able to determine that it is too small, sight unseen.
The boat was designed as a tiller boat, so retrofiting an emergency tiller certainly isn't going to be difficult. Some pictures of the cockpit and current set up and details on the windvane set-up you are considering would help.
__________________
It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 02-05-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,285
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Rockter will become famous soon enough
Jack :

What is the deficiency of your current system? Does it steer OK? Has it ever failed?

Disconnect the rudder head flange from your worm-gear steering and take the steering unit out.

Check it for wear and play.

It is almost certain to be a stainless worm gear with probably two contra-cut worm gear followers on it. (there may just be one follower on it). You can srew them off, wash them in gasoline, and inspect for wear.

Properly lubricated, they last for ever, but they are very expensive indeed. An Edson system is like $4000+.

If there is plenty of life left on them, lubricate and re-assemble.

I don't know if your unit has the facility for an emergency tiller with worm gear steering. My 1977 Union Polaris 36 does not. My own unit is similar in principle to the Metoer system in this link...

http://pdf.nauticexpo.com/pdf/edson/...9-5927-_6.html

On your ship, if the emergency tiller can be deployed promptly, I simply would leave it as is. That really is enough redundancy. I do advise taping the necessary spanners on to the rudder post so that you do not need to go looking for them in an emergency. You may be short of time and looking for tools in a rudderless boat is going to make you sick at very best.

I plan to fit a Hydrovane independent rudder system in the spring to my ship. It is a self-contained steering system.

Then I can do no more.
.

Last edited by Rockter; 02-05-2012 at 01:44 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 02-05-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jack2 is on a distinguished road
The current emergency tiller is about a 18-24" shaft that clamps onto the rudder shaft facing backwards. To use it the lazerett hatch cover must be open. I tried to upload a photo but even though I made it small it would not upload. Do you have a place I could send them?
Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 02-05-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jack2 is on a distinguished road
Rockter I have a chain and cable steering system. the emergency tiller can be attached quickly but would be very hard to use for any length of time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 02-05-2012
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,617
Thanks: 5
Thanked 87 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 9
killarney_sailor is on a distinguished road
I don't see how there could be a problem with the rudder shaft and a Monitor since the Monitor only steers the wheel. If the boat steers ok (no particular play in the system) it should work fine with the Monitor since there are no additional loads put on the system.

Best thing to do with your emergency tiller is to try it (get away from anything you don't to hit). 18-24" does not seem like much mechanical advantage to me. You might want something longer, which should be easily done. If you have to have the lazarette open you would want to make some sort of cover to keep spray and rain out since you could be using the system for a long time - several days possibly.

You can PM me the photos if you like.
__________________
Back in the water in Grenada - with new main and #2 and cockpit canvas (Santa came early). Will spend the winter and early spring in the Caribbean and then head to Bermuda and the northeast US. Still trying to decide if we will bring the boat to Canada, either in 2015 or 2016.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Tags
wheel or tiller?

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wheel vs Tiller rpearlberg General Discussion (sailing related) 28 02-23-2010 11:23 PM
Tiller vs wheel flyingwelshman General Discussion (sailing related) 26 09-15-2009 02:13 PM
Tiller vs. wheel jadkkd Boat Review and Purchase Forum 34 08-24-2007 10:03 AM
Tiller or Wheel? Hooah Seamanship & Navigation 8 04-01-2006 02:34 AM
Wheel to Tiller TADIAS General Discussion (sailing related) 3 06-16-2005 05:20 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:30 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.