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  #21  
Old 02-12-2012
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SFChallenger,
The top shelf stuff at REI will be just as expensive as the top sailing brands. I've never sailed with anyone wearing HPX musto's. They're probably the most expensive set you can get. Do you drive a Ferrari? Maybe you need to find a Lexus brand of foulies to suit your needs. Or a Chevy, Honda, etc.

For lightweight foulies and mid layers, I'd looking into anything cheap from Target, REI, or any other store.

I'm using HL offshore bibs and jacket. I've been very happy how they preform. I picked them up as "last year's models" for 1/2 of what they were advertised for. I've never met anyone who has spend over $1,000 on foulies. If they're on a boat that requires that kind of investment, there are pro's on board and the owner is picking up the tab. If you want stuff that's better than 90% of others have, the Musto MPX are very popular.

I will tell you offshore you need a good stupid high collar on the jacket. The bibs need to be of solid construction. Zippers are not waterproof, get a jacket that has a double storm flap zipper. The water risistant ones are ok for inshore spray, they have no business on serious ocean gear. The bibs with zippers down the side will leak after the 2nd big wave you take. And we all know, zippers break. On day 2 of a 15 day trip, what are you going to do, tape em back together? You're in the fackin ocean mate. You're going to be cold and wet for the next week and a half.

If you go sailing in a climate controlled bubble of canvas dodgers and biminis and have never spent the night clipped in on the rail eating waves in down right scary condition, please do not comment on how well your $50 jacket is working out in the caribbean. Apples and oranges.
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Okay, blowing out one zipper I could chalk up to manufacturer's defect. But two? dude, you just gotta admit, you are no longer a "medium."
Not true - the same thing keeps happening to ME. It's those Chinese factories - they are gradually making all the original sizes smaller and smaller to save on material.

The proof is in the fact that clothes of all kinds just keep getting tighter and tighter as the years pass.
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  #23  
Old 02-12-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
SFChallenger,
The top shelf stuff at REI will be just as expensive as the top sailing brands. I've never sailed with anyone wearing HPX musto's. They're probably the most expensive set you can get. Do you drive a Ferrari? Maybe you need to find a Lexus brand of foulies to suit your needs. Or a Chevy, Honda, etc.

For lightweight foulies and mid layers, I'd looking into anything cheap from Target, REI, or any other store.

I'm using HL offshore bibs and jacket. I've been very happy how they preform. I picked them up as "last year's models" for 1/2 of what they were advertised for. I've never met anyone who has spend over $1,000 on foulies. If they're on a boat that requires that kind of investment, there are pro's on board and the owner is picking up the tab. If you want stuff that's better than 90% of others have, the Musto MPX are very popular.

I will tell you offshore you need a good stupid high collar on the jacket. The bibs need to be of solid construction. Zippers are not waterproof, get a jacket that has a double storm flap zipper. The water risistant ones are ok for inshore spray, they have no business on serious ocean gear. The bibs with zippers down the side will leak after the 2nd big wave you take. And we all know, zippers break. On day 2 of a 15 day trip, what are you going to do, tape em back together? You're in the fackin ocean mate. You're going to be cold and wet for the next week and a half.

If you go sailing in a climate controlled bubble of canvas dodgers and biminis and have never spent the night clipped in on the rail eating waves in down right scary condition, please do not comment on how well your $50 jacket is working out in the caribbean. Apples and oranges.
With all due respect I completely disagree with most of what you're saying here. For starters the notion that "for serious ocean work...." to me is just marketing. Marketing to fear.

Fact of the matter is, that unless you're racing on a Volvo boat, planing at 18kts in the roaring 50s, you're going to be much wetter inshore than offshore. Inshore is where you don't have the sea room to run off, so you have to go to weather in that SCA. Inshore is where it's shallow and there is an opposing current creating those tall, short period, confused seas that slap around, cause you to bury your bow and get you wet. So why is "inshore" gear less quality than "offshore" gear?

Cherp nailed it right on the head. What kind of foulies you need are determined by your boat and the type of sailing you do. I've been on the big, scary offshore when it was a milk pond (with swells) and on a boat that wasn't wet. I was wearing shorts and Tevas. Most times I've gotten seriously wet was near-shore either by being somewhere I shouldn't be, or when racing. The wettest I ever got was in a gale in the straits of Juan de Fuca that cracked the hull of my wooden boat and I got wet though a top of the line industrial/offshore Danish PVC fisherman's deck suit. (there was no english anywhere to be found on the labels) All other times I have gotten wet were while racing.

My boat, for example, has a clipper bow with lots of overhang and tonnes of flare. I pay for it in unusable length, and in moorage but she is an EXTREMELY dry boat. If my boat and an IOR boat were in the same waters at the same time, you'd need better foulies on the IOR boat. Add in racing and being on the foredeck rounding the windward mark, and you'll need better foulies than you'd ever need offshore.

I also disagree that the top of the line REI, motorcyle, or snowmobile gear costs the same as the top sailing gear. You want gore-tex in sailing gear, look at the Musto MPX that was mentioned. $600 for the jacket, and $600 for the bibs. I've also seen "ocean" jackets for sale for $1,000 (Henry Lloyd I think). That snow-mobiling bib I posted was HALF as expensive and DOES have waterproof, full length leg zips, knee pads etc. Waterproof zips are an expensive feature and are much better than storm flaps. (BTW the quickest way to dump heat after grinding a winch is to zip the side leg zips down to the knees for a few minutes.)

REI mountaineering, backcountry skiing, and motorcylce jackets have stupid-high collars and have every bit as much and more engineering designed into them to keep the wind, rain, snow, and cold out. Who do you think is relying on his gear more to keep him alive: the ocean racer than can go below and change clothes and warm up some soup, or the mountaineer ice climbing above 8 hours above the paltry comforts his tent, let along real safety? That same gear is available to us, for half the price of "offshore rated" sailing gear.

Do most people need even $300 Gore-Tex bibs or jacket? Probably not. Like Cherp said, look at your boat, your bow shape, cockpit design, if you have a dodger or not and mostly look at the sailing you do. If you have an IOR boat, and or like to race, it's going to be wet and you're going to be sweating, so you might as well buy the good stuff. If you have a Hans Christian with a dodger, don't race, lines are led aft, and prefer to go downwind, you won't need the "Offshore rated" stuff, even if you plan to go around the globe twice. "offshore rated", like 1/2 the safety gear out there, is just another way to extract money from those who fear going offshore more than they should.

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Last edited by MedSailor; 02-12-2012 at 04:50 PM.
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2012
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I just use the heavy PVC commercial stuff, Alaska fishermen know how to stay dry and warm. No it isn't "breathable" and maybe in a warm, humid, climate that might be nice but here in the PNW not really necessary. I have a light set of breathable rain gear to wear during the summer in the rain but the rest of the year (7-8 months) it's the Grundens or Helly with my XtraTuff boots, or if it's really cold my Muck Arctic boots and Gore Tex ski gloves. Of course, with a pilothouse, sailing in the rain is an optional thing for me:-))
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  #25  
Old 02-12-2012
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MedSailor, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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  #26  
Old 02-15-2012
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Buy the best for tyour needs

Lot's of good info here, but here is my two cents. I live in New England and the PNW has similar temp water and is generally wet/damp. If you are truly going offshore, I mean more than 8 h from land/port, you will want/need heavy-duty true off-shore stuff. You will have to spend some $$, but a good set will last a long time. Going half-ass and skimping on FWG, especially if your planning off-shore adventures, short-sided and could cause a life-threatening condition if it fails at the wrong time.

I have three sets of foulies; Gore-tex Henri Lloyd Ocean Jacket/bibs, West Marine "Coastal" bibs, and Gill Coastal and Henri Lloyd jackets, and at summer set for very light and warm conditions. The Henri Lloyd Ocean set was given to me by someone getting out of boating, but it was in excess of $1000 new. The summer set is basically wind pants and a light weight tight weave nylon jacket.

When it's nasty out, Wind/Wet/Splash, nothing beats the Gore-Tex set, but they are heavy and bulky which makes them tiring to wear, but I have used them during a 8 h 40 deg F pouring rain delivery in moderate seas. I was dry after the sail delivery.

I use my coastal stuff mostly, even in winter, and it works well in most instances, but it gets saturated in heavy rains or extended (3+ h) rains. I wouldn't use it off-shore for anything more than 4 h in any type of moderate to heavy weather.

My summer stuff is mostly a collection of lightweight Windstopper, "gore-Tex" like water proof membranes, and water-repellency coated nylon. Most of this stuff is EMS, REI-type of gear that I also use when bike riding or hiking It works best in wind weather for the occasion spray or light, warm rain.

The "Grudings" fishing foulies are will keep you "dry", but you will get clammy and eventually cold. Many folks don't realize that fisherman are constantly moving and therefore keeping "warm" due to activity. The same is not true for sailing where you could be working hard for a several minutes, and then inactive for a length of time. During the inactivity time, all the "sweat" that you generated during activity doesn't "breath" through the PVC, so you will start to feel clammy and then you may start to feel cold. Bottom line it has it's place, but I wouldn't use it for a primary sailing off-shore sailing suit.

For true Off-shore stuff, you don't need Gore-Tex, but I do recommend a heavy duty cloth with a tight weave and a good water repellency treatment. Also good boating foulies, as opposed to high-performance climbing, cycling, hiking clothes, have features specific for boating such has high back and front bibs, self-drain pockets, double flap pockets, abrasion pads on butt, elbows and knees, wrist seals, etc. West Marine's Off-Shore stuff is pretty decent stuff IMHO and I wouldn't be afraid to use it in anything except the most nasty stuff (Ocean Racing), but I probably wouldn't be sailing in that anyway. The WM stuff is decent for most stuff people sail in and less costly than HL, Musto, etc. stuff.

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Last edited by DrB; 02-15-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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  #27  
Old 02-15-2012
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My favourite foulie gear is my Helley Hansen Offshore bib. Warm, waterproof, breathable with Kevlar butt and knees. As the previous years model, I got them for a 1/3 of retail. I could not afford the HH jacket, so I wear a Gill Atlantic jacket.

In 2010, I brought a Vic Maui boat without dodger back to the PNW. Even with lots of water over the bow I stayed nice and dry.

I also still have my old HH coastal gear which I wear occasionally.
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  #28  
Old 02-19-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Though these probably wouldn't work for you, I came across an insanely good deal on coastal foulies:

Nautical Foul Weather Set | Overstock.com

$85 for jacket AND bibs! I was a little skeptical at first, but figured I couldn't lose. I just got them in yesterday and they are actually very nice quality.

I sail mostly in the Gulf, so we don't have to deal with the bitter cold like you guys do. For the warmish kind of sailing, I don't think you could go wrong with these things.
I echo these comments. I bought an xl and medium to leave on the boat for guests, but they're definitely nice enough to be primaries. Very good kit.
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Old 02-19-2012
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I echo these comments. I bought an xl and medium to leave on the boat for guests, but they're definitely nice enough to be primaries. Very good kit.
I just received mine yesterday. It was going to be just for a spare but they may now be the primary. Seems to be very good quality. And looks to be made in Germany.

So they get a Thumbs UP!!!

Brian
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Old 02-19-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleEnder View Post
I just received mine yesterday. It was going to be just for a spare but they may now be the primary. Seems to be very good quality. And looks to be made in Germany.

So they get a Thumbs UP!!!

Brian
No, they are made in China. The German lettering is on them because they are distributed by Tchibo, a German coffee chain (the German version of Starbucks). For reasons lost in history, about 20 years ago Tchibo started selling all kinds of stuff, like down duvets, microwave ovens, underwear and anything else you can think of, none of it having to do with coffee (although they still sell a lot of that, too). All of it one-off and usually cheap and reasonably good quality. They may have overestimated the size of the sailing market and had to offload the FWG to overstock.com.

Having said all that, I got my jacket and bib yesterday and am thrilled with it. Ain't Henri Lloyd but very, very serviceable. For the price, it is an absolute steal.

Last edited by MastUndSchotbruch; 02-19-2012 at 11:02 AM. Reason: typo
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