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post #51 of 69 Old 08-04-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

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"IMO high tech fabrics are a waste of money and mostly a marketing ploy."
Spoken by someone who has either never spent time in heat and humidity, or someone who has an incredibly high tolerance for them and never notices.
Those of us who are bothered a bit more by a sauna, find that GoreTex really works. Works damn well, and keeps you much drier and more comfortable inside than any fancy plastic or rubber garment would. Generally it is not as rugged as classic foulies, but it really does work, within the limits of what it is intended to do.
ABSOLUTELY. Last summer I wore my HH / Gill foulies all the way from Maui to Juan de Fuca. In small seas, I wore just the pants, when the seas built and I needed to stay dry I wore the jacket as well.

I stayed dry all the time. In the heat I stayed cool. When I needed warmth I went with my hi-tech polypropylene underwear and fleece.

I had a PVC suit when I started sailing. It was a portable sauna.

My HH pants have a Kevlar seat and knees - very durable.

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post #52 of 69 Old 08-04-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"IMO high tech fabrics are a waste of money and mostly a marketing ploy."
Spoken by someone who has either never spent time in heat and humidity, or someone who has an incredibly high tolerance for them and never notices.
Those of us who are bothered a bit more by a sauna, find that GoreTex really works. Works damn well, and keeps you much drier and more comfortable inside than any fancy plastic or rubber garment would. Generally it is not as rugged as classic foulies, but it really does work, within the limits of what it is intended to do.
High tech "breathable" fabrics are effective when there is a large humidity differential between the sweaty interior and the dryer exterior. Moisture wants to travel from wet to dry, warm to cold. These fabrics are most effective for hiking in places with low humidity which is what they were developed for. They are MUCH less useful in the humid climates found near sea level and certainly on boats where, in case you haven't noticed, it is usually humid. I have had many pieces of Goretex clothing. They eventually soak through and become sodden and useless, even when used for hiking in the East where the humidity tends to be higher. IMO, the price is just not worth it. You are better off with good quality impervious raingear. I carry a full length Goretex insulated jacket which is useful for really cold weather but it will not shed water like my Helly Hansen standard rain gear.

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post #53 of 69 Old 08-04-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

Hi tech gear needs care. I wash mine in an industrial front end machine witb a product that restores the waterproofing.

I have worn it from Maui (20.8N) to Cape Scott (50.4N)

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Last edited by jackdale; 08-04-2013 at 09:57 PM.
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post #54 of 69 Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

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Hi tech gear needs care. I wash mine in an industrial front end machine witb a product that restores the waterproofing.

I have worn it from Maui (20.8N) to Cape Scott (50.4N)

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Jack, what product do you find best to re-waterproof your Goretex? I have a non-insulated Goretex raincoat that still looks good but has almost completely lost its ability to shed rain.

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post #55 of 69 Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

I use Grainger's waterproofing.

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post #56 of 69 Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

Think zippers are always problematic. In other activities water comes at you from the front. When sailing it comes at you every which way. Have fancy dan motorcycle gear with zippers up the sides. Keeps me dry tooling down the road at 70+mph in driving rain. Wore it once on the boat. When I took it off line of wet under the zippers. Might wear boiled wool but no other natural fibers. Wear wicking small clothes and mid layer under my foulies. Never wear killer cotton. Cotton undies = passage pimples. Even sailing through the fog down Maine or 100% humidity any of the 3 layer ocean rated foulies will work just fine. Use wash and rinse products bought at REI keeps foulies working fine. Rinse foulies in fresh water ASAP after a cruise. Think activity specific high quality foulies worth every penny. If you have a week or two where you only take them off for the call of nature think you will feel the same.

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post #57 of 69 Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

Dunno, smurph. My "extreme wet weather" guaranteed Gore-Tex has done very well at sea level in muggy weather. But I will tell you, never, never, ever, sit down on a heated car seat with a wet Gore-Tex jacket. The heat drives the water from the outside right back INside.

But then again, when I complained about that to Gore, they determined the Gore-Tex had failed (after I mailed it in to them) and they were fast to offer me a replacement at no charge. With your raincoat, I'd suggest calling Gore. They'll go over use and care and "proper" treatments for it, and if it needs more than some routine care, they'll replace it for you.

Yeah, I know, we pay for that in the price up front. But it certainly is nice service.
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post #58 of 69 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

IMHO as with most things, you can buy once and cry once, or buy cheap, and cry everytime you use it. Holds true for sails, rigging, tools, etc.

I don't know where you guys are shopping, but no one pays the $800 retail for a gore-tex jacket. You save up, and catch these items on sale, or buy last year's models for 1/2 the price. Shop around.

The REI stuff is great for 90% of the sailors out there. But if you do serious offshore racing or deliveries, you should go for the stuff that was designed for harsh sailing.

And please don't think that a bargin bin $80 jacket will provide the same features and comfort that a $400 jacket would. Compare apples to apples.

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post #59 of 69 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

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Dunno, smurph. My "extreme wet weather" guaranteed Gore-Tex has done very well at sea level in muggy weather. But I will tell you, never, never, ever, sit down on a heated car seat with a wet Gore-Tex jacket. The heat drives the water from the outside right back INside.

But then again, when I complained about that to Gore, they determined the Gore-Tex had failed (after I mailed it in to them) and they were fast to offer me a replacement at no charge. With your raincoat, I'd suggest calling Gore. They'll go over use and care and "proper" treatments for it, and if it needs more than some routine care, they'll replace it for you.

Yeah, I know, we pay for that in the price up front. But it certainly is nice service.
The jacket I mentioned is 20+ years old. Although it is still in good shape and not covered with epoxy and paint like most of my boat clothes, I wouldn't expect them to guarantee it that long. I will try the Granger's waterproofing as Jack posted. Thanks for the info Jack.
I do have a Kokotat Goretex dry top that is, of course, completely waterproof but it seems like much heavier material than either of the jackets. Have tried using the dry top on deck but it usually gets too hot and the neoprene neck and wrist gaskets are wicked uncomfortable.

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post #60 of 69 Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Foulies - anything other than Musto worthwhile?

When I was sea kayaking the Maine Island Trail back in the 90's I started with a "waterproof" but non-breathable Kokatat dry suit. The thing was a personal sauna, utterly unbearable and totally disgusting. Within 5-10 minutes I was wetter inside the suit than outside. That dry suit lasted all of three-four trips before I sold it at a huge loss. I then sprung for the Gore-Tex version of the same exact suit (about $700.00 clams at the time). The difference inside the suit was ASTOUNDING.... I was dry, comfortable (well as comfortable as can be expected in a dry suit) and paddled literally 500-700 miles in it during times when the waters were still dangerously cold, all in a "high humidity" environment. The fabric performed exceptionally well...

I also have a Todd Bibler single wall breathable mountaineering tent and bivy sack. The net experts expounded on how they can't or won't work in the East yet we have used that tent, even in the summers, and the interior has always been 100% bone dry and is does exactly what the fabric was intended to do, breathe... Even did an early March trip to Isle Au Haut and used the Bibler in a pouring rain, bordering on ice, storm. Three people in that tent and we were bone dry... I will never go back to a double walled non-breathable tent for winter mountaineering..

As a commercial lobsterman I wore Grundens because they were cheap and somewhat durable (I could chew through about four pair of bibs in a season). They were utterly disgusting to wear, wetter inside than out, but it kept the "fish stink" off you.....

You could not pay me to wear a PVC sauna suit for sailing. Kind of like dusting off the old buggy whip...

That said I do not wear "sailing gear" like Musto, Gill etc. (I do own it but it is pretty dusty). I find climbing apparel piles more comfortable and MUCH better designed for freedom of movement.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 08-06-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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