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  #21  
Old 02-19-2012
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I chartered one of the Lagoon hybrid drives a few years back. Loved it! To be able to move w/o firing up a motor was fun. The genset was very quiet when fired up.
I have been researching converting our boat when the volvo becomes an anchor.
Please keep us informed
Jim
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  #22  
Old 02-19-2012
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Ulladh,

Thanks for your support, I still hope to find folks here that have already converted. On CF, there are 6 that are active on the forum, and most are cats. They were able to confirm my theory that the high torque at rpms that a diesel can't even idle at, would make tight quarters maneuverability child's play. So I guess all the bar patrons at the marina will have less entertainment watching boats at the docks trying to pirouette into position.
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  #23  
Old 02-19-2012
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Jim,

Did you also discover how the electric motors allow precision maneuverability, so you always look polished to on-lookers as you pull in?

I will keep you posted because for me it is a combination of loving sailing, hating the oil companies, and designing and racing EVs. For the EVs, quiet power is a rush, and a real head turner.
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Old 02-20-2012
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Jim :

I will keep you posted because for me it is a combination of loving sailing, hating the oil companies, and designing and racing EVs. For the EVs, quiet power is a rush, and a real head turner.


Your attitude to oil companies surprises me, and is somewhat alienating.

You are typiing on a plastic keyboard, looking at a plastic screen, on a varnished desk, pictured in a motor vehicle painted with oil-based paint, driving on roads finished with bitumen, owning a sailboat made from polyester resins painted with petroleum products, living in a house painted with petroleum and plastics everywhere, planning a hybrid propulsion that will not move without a petroleum-driven generator... and you hate oil companies????

Take your hatred of oil companies a step further and stop using petroleum.

Give it a go.
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Old 02-20-2012
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Hybrids and hating oil companies

"hate" is a strong word but, using it is the same way as deckofficer, I hate X Factor but still find myself drawn to the train-wreck-slowly-unfolding nature of the show.

Anyhow, he did not say he hates oil, probably just the way in which companies active in that business conduct themselves. I doubt it is a rationally thought through opinion so much as a visceral sense that helps justify an otherwise admirable plan to test the limits of providing power to a sailboat.

I have a friend who is trying what deckofficer proposes and will ask for some feedback on his success. I do know that he found the regen to cut into performance more than he expected, because instead of the propeller spinning free, it was dragging with resistance - he reckoned he lost 2 kts. May be worth exploring whether regen through your motor is more of a parasitic load than a wind generator up above - which is what I think he ended up with.

400 watts of solar panels was way too expensive but I recall that he did not have a huge capacity to charge so solar might have worked if it was cheaper (and no parasitic load). The main benefit was the efficiency of the generator operating at optimum versus a diesel operating outside its efficient range.

I will post anything else I find out, or better still, persuade him to join sailnet if he is not already a member - I am new to this "social media" thing so coming to sailnet late in my sailing life (although hopefully with more life left in me than a new lithium ion pack)
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Old 02-20-2012
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deck, how large will the battery bank need to be, dimensionally, to do everything you want it to do?
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44.8" X 7.17" X 10.98" 196.8 lbs. 9.2 Kw/hr 48 volt bank. I come by my attitude towards oil companies honestly, I used to work for them. I will have lots of solar since China has entered the market and driven the cost down to $1.13 per watt from the $5+ per watt I last paid.

As to drag, the water medium does not care if your using energy for propulsion or receiving energy from being propelled by your sails. The folks that are using diesel-electric drive just run the motors to match what they calculated their boat speed to be for the conditions. Nice thing about doing that, you are assured of your ETA to anchorage, and depending on if you under estimated or over estimated, your battery bank will have less or more SOC when you arrive. Plus, you have the option as you near landfall, if you know you will be on the hook for awhile, just back the pots down, induce more drag, and fully top off the battery bank.
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Last edited by deckofficer; 02-20-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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  #28  
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Nobody suggesting dishonest hatred of oil companies. However, not worth discussing further since that is off topic.

I am not sure I understood the relevance of your second point. You seem to be saying that if you run the motor consistent with the speed you think you are going, then at least you know when you will get there and that if you calculated right then your level of charge will be unchanged at the end of the voyage. ie you did not charge the batteries

My friend was trying to harness the kinetic energy of the boat to charge the batteries so he had maneuvring power at his arrival without expending diesel to provide it. Converting kinetic energy into electrical energy without a loss of boat speed compared to letting the prop spin free (since the mass stays constant for all practical purposes) results in drag which slows the boat. In the limiting case, a prop stall, you will see the difference it makes to your boat speed. A wind turbine or (as you rightly say, now cheaper) solar cells result in less parasitic load. He went for the former -- a wind turbine.

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Telesail :

If oil company bashing is off topic then keep it off-topic.

I see it too often, and on this website.

I am an oil engineer, and I hear no complaint AT ALL when the users of petroleum drive into their station forecourt and fill up their Suburban to the cap with petroleum, then drive off towing their boat with no thought at all as to the men and women that put it there.

When the oil men and women DIE putting it there, and 11 of them did last summer, all I hear is high-volume oil-company bashing about oil on beaches.

If you don't like petroleum, then don't use it.

I am going to have the last laugh watching you try, and I can tell you that our oil-company-hating friend there with his diesel electric won't get far without it.

So let's all stay on topic then, shall we?, and leave oil-company bashing to those that don't use petroleum.
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The off topic bit was whether deck's hatred was dishonest or not. I personally think he is misguided and generalizing from some specific experience. I am not an oil company basher -- quite the opposite. Happy to have a discussion about the social and economic good that the oil and gas industry provides (and the occasions on which it falls short of its standards) compared to many alternative energy schemes.

However, I was trying to respond to the point about no loss of speed from regenerative charging rather than arguing with someone whose mind is obviously made up about why he feels the way he does.
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