Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market... - Page 13 - SailNet Community
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post #121 of 291 Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Originally Posted by NCC320

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Just an opinion......You are not treating Mantus very well. Do you have an agenda adverse to Mantus?-NCC320
I have no agenda, If ou read more carefully I intend to purchase the anchor myself. I am enamoured and supportive of the idea that they have modified/ improved the new generation ide to have made it easier to carry. Stop reading into things. Challanging their claims does not mean I have an agenda.

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You have implied, not proven, that they have done or are doing underhanded things in promoting their anchor.NCC320
There is question about viloating the terms of posting on Sailnet. You were part of the thread where that happened. They had one of their enginieers/ designers join, post a thread like she was your average "joe sailor" like us without disclosing their relationship to Mantus. You are incorrect is was discovered my Mantus. It was discovered and pinted out by a fellow sailnetter It appeared to some to be deceptive. By the way you used the term misconduct..I never did. I really dont want to rehash this as it has been addressed.

spare anchor

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You not only put them down, but you imply that somehow their anchor is inferior to your Rocna and to Manson. Prove it. Back it up with your own test data.-NCC320
Here is what I posted. How does that say they are inferior? I am clearly saying I expect it to be the equal of the other new generation anchors. Nothing more or less. Lets face reality here. the basically all look the same. They dont look like a fortress/ danforth, they dont look like a delta, they dont look like a fisherman, they dont look like a bruce and they dont look like a CQR. ( well kind of minus the swivel and roll bar). I am not making the claimms they hold better, in fact I am saying I would expect them to hold the same.

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I am glad to see that the holding power equals what I would see with a Rocna or Manson Supreme which it obvious mimics and is basically a knockoff/ copy of their new generation designs. Expectations would be that it would have similar results in independent tests using controlled conditions like Practical Sailor does.Chef2sail ( my post)
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You say you want to buy one as a back-up/secondary anchor as I did. If so, go ahead and buy it and stop bashing it.-NCC320
I have already done this, so let me asky you a question. When I get it and use it and come to the same conclusions...will you still incorrectly say I am bashing it, which I am not

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You fuss about not having an independent test, but if you were to test the bolts and their failure point, just how would you do it? Scientifically. Let's see your test. NCC320
It is not up o me to do a scientific test. They are making the claims. Medsailor whos posts I respect is reporting now. Mainsail who actually has done some really great testing on many types of epuipment including a really fascinating superior test on anchors ( his test actually got me to buy a Rocna or Manson Supreme). Practical sailor has done tests of these and expect they will do the Mantus.

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Why am I posting this....well I just hate to see the new guy get unfairly beat up. It's the new guys that bring us new inovations, or maybe just refinements over the existing technology, but either way it's good. We need to support them, not try beat them back, unless somehow they are a threat to us in some way. Give the guy a break.-NCC320
It is to be expected that someone who makes claims will receive scrutiny. This is a fact of life and not such a bad thing. I am not trying in any way to beat them back or I would have spent my hard earned money on it. We do not need to support them. We need to make sure their claims are valid, their posts reflect their affiliations, and their tests are valid..just like people have done with Rocna. Open your eyes. They didnt develop this for the good of all sailors and give it to us at cost ( most of us), they developed a product to make money which is fine also.

Maybe I am not as blindly trusting as you. You have said yourself previously that you have very little experience in anchoring. Go forth with your new anchor and gain the experience. I am sure you will rest easier on a new generation anchor as I did knowing its easier to set, and that it will reset more quickly.

Lastly remember no anchor is the " queeens bees" in all bottom conditions. So it you venture out of the Sound where you boat, or find yourself on a grass boittom creek with a layer of leaves you may want to consoider using a Fortress or Danforth. These are the bottoms where I have found so far that the new generation anchors did not set as easily and lot the first time you drop them like they do in other bottom conditions.

Stop taking my posts an over analyzing them about me and read what I really am truly saying.

Dave
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post #122 of 291 Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Maine...good post

Actually after reading about vleats being ripped out in some of the noreeasters two years ago before thier rodes parted made me examine Haleakulas cleats. I dont even want to post what what I found, but needless to say when I saw the way our 35C&C MKIII was done ( an its a fairly well made boat) my first exclaimation was ( SH**).

Since the acess was easy through our more than generous anchor locker within two weeks I had replaced them, reglassed the area and have huge backing plates under them as well as the chocks. I used 3/4 inch bolts also,

You points are well take on the bolt strengths and pins for the CQR as well as the shackles. Most of us wont experience the stresses your boat does on the mooring all the time in the weather you experience.

Thanks for you post again.

Dave


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post #123 of 291 Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
So far our Mantus has performed as expected and sets slightly faster than our Rocna or Manson. Course we are talking inches in difference but still when it hits the bottom it digs in instantaneously. Holding power is probably apples to apples and I did load test the Rocna against the Mantus and could not budge either with a 29' sport fishing boat. It was tough to get them out however.....

As for mud all three bring up fairly equal amounts of bottom....
Maine, Correct me if I'm wrong but from this I gather you have found, so far, that the Mantus is a very effective anchor, about equal to the Mansocnas in performance, but has the added advantage of being easily broken down for flat stowage.

Correct? Anything else to add?

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #124 of 291 Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Maine, Correct me if I'm wrong but from this I gather you have found, so far, that the Mantus is a very effective anchor, about equal to the Mansocnas in performance, but has the added advantage of being easily broken down for flat stowage.

Correct? Anything else to add?

So far, so good. I even took it out with my brothers sport fishing boat and put it through the paces with twin screws and 450 HP !!!!! I was afraid to rip a cleat out of his boat so backed off a little. I pulled these things till the frothy water behind the twin screws looked like Niagara Falls.

I plan on using this as my primary through late November to get a real sense for it. I don't like to be premature in my findings. I will then go back to my Rocna as my primary because it fits better in the anchor locker and on the roller and the Mantus will be a reserve anchor with my Fortress.
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

I have already done this (buy a Mantus), so let me asky you a question. When I get it and use it and come to the same conclusions...will you still incorrectly say I am bashing it, which I am not

- I think you'll be happy with the anchor as a secondary/storm anchor to be stored below. What size did you get?

- Now that you own one, I think it will be entirely appropriate to report your findings, good or bad. That helps other sailors in making their decisions.

You have said yourself previously that you have very little experience in anchoring.

- Actually, I think that I said that I don't anchor out often. But I've been messing with sail and power boats for 42 years, so I've anchored quite a bit over time....I just don't do it frequently. I've used a Danforth for most of that. And a Bruce less often. (Even have a little experience with anchoring a ship from Navy days).

Lastly remember no anchor is the " queeens bees" in all bottom conditions. So it you venture out of the Sound where you boat, or find yourself on a grass boittom creek with a layer of leaves you may want to consoider using a Fortress or Danforth. These are the bottoms where I have found so far that the new generation anchors did not set as easily and lot the first time you drop them like they do in other bottom conditions.

- Thanks for the heads up. I carry a 33 lb. Bruce, 22 lb. Danforth, and now 35 lb. Mantus as storm anchor (disassembled/stored in cockpit locker).
I'll look forward to learning of your experience with this anchor.
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

When I get it I will use as my primary for a while to test it for me. I am primarily buying it as mentioned to have a new gen type anchor in reserve and it is attractive in that it can be broken down and stored in a smaller footpruint. Like Mainesail ,y intention is that I will go back to using my Rocna as my frimary with a fortress and the Mantus as reserves.

Dave


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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Mine 35# Mantus arrived today, and the box wasn't even torn up. I'll wait until the weekend to open it up as I won't have a chance to get it out to the boat until Sun at the earliest
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post #128 of 291 Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Guys thanks for your feed back, discussion good or bad!
Just wanted to let you, we are now in the SAILNET store... I am sure good things are coming for the SAILNETTERS!
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post #129 of 291 Old 09-27-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

I have one question when you guys are testing an anchor, does one ever get to use 1 to 10 scope? It seams all of the Mantus tests were using this method. Am I wrong I never get to use that kind of scope not even in clam bay. It is more like 4 to 1 and 5 to 1 and even then I seam to close to other boats.

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post #130 of 291 Old 09-27-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by Marcel D View Post
I have one question when you guys are testing an anchor, does one ever get to use 1 to 10 scope? It seams all of the Mantus tests were using this method. Am I wrong I never get to use that kind of scope not even in clam bay. It is more like 4 to 1 and 5 to 1 and even then I seam to close to other boats.
I think I've only had 10:1 out once. I was in, what my guidebook told me, was the busiest anchorage in all of Desolation Sound. I had it all to myself, and had been, for the last 4 months, anchoring on much less scope than I had wanted to on most nights. I dropped my 10:1 that night just for the heck of it and would wake up on the other side of the bay, still attached to my hook. (Fortress FX-16 on a different boat)

As to your question, I think that some of the videos used a 10:1 scope but both Maine_Sail and I have been using ours on VERY short scopes just to see what would happen. Just the other night I set my and backed down on it at just over 2:1 and spend the night with 15 gusting 30kt winds at just over 4:1.

Here is my write up of that trip: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Here is Maine_Sail's short scope test:Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

I haven't tried the Mantus on 10:1 yet myself. I figure if it'll hold on short scope, it'll hold on long scope too.

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