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  #161  
Old 07-08-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Greg,

Since Main_Sail has passed on your offer for now, I'll offer up my services as a West Coast tester. I don't have the same equipment as Maine, but I'll promise that if you send me one, I'll hook it up to my 30,000lb 41ft ketch and take it to Jones Island in the San Juan islands where nothing likes to stick and let you know what I find. I'll also take it everywhere else and give it a go. I know some other areas of really soft mud for comparison as well. I like the concept and design and am keen to try it out in the field.

I'll post my results here on this thread that I started 4 months and 4,000+ views ago!

MedSailor
Well it took me nearly a year to the day to fulfill my original promise above (of taking the anchor to Jones island) for a test. And test it we did!

Backstory:

The holding ground in the Salish Sea is pretty good ground to get an anchor to stick and hold in. I spend 4.5 months cruising years ago on my smaller boat using a Fortress FX-16 all over the Salish Sea. It served its purpose and never came unstuck despite some serious blows. It was not quick or easy to set though. I often had to try several times and once on the THIRD time I pulled it up it was fouled with chain. Set on the fourth try....

My next boat came with a manual windlass, negating the need for a lightweight anchor. It also came with my preferred anchor, the Genuine Bruce. Ahh... how wonderful to have it set in a boat-length or less (usually less) ever time. I became a Disciple of The Bruce.

The north end of Jones Island in the San Juan Islands is the only place where I had to pull it up and try again to get a set. A couple years ago there were a bunch or boats looking for shelter from a forecast south gale (which never came). I drug it a few hundred yards the first time, and probably 50 yards the second time before it set. Another boat (with a danforth copy) came and asked me what I was using and how I set it. It set, but not where I wanted it. I was too close to another boat and had to set my fortress as as stern anchor to limit swinging. If the winds came up the stern anchor (set to the north) wouldn't be a player, but I needed it to limit swinging. No gale, but during the night with just minimal tidal swinging the fortress came unset. Didn't hit the other boat though....

So that's the story of the tough holding ground at Jones. Now for the Mantus.




I headed there on the 2nd of July and there wasn't any serious wind forecast. The anchorage was crowded when I got there, necessitating anchoring on the northwest side of the cove. 60ft of water was as close in as I could get.

I was worried that it might not set immediately and we would be backing up towards the NW cliff. I decided not to lay out too much chain and back up slowly for the initial set. I put out 160ft of chain and we started backing.

For those watching closely, here are the hard numbers. My depth sounder is mounted 2 ft low and my bowsprit is 8ft above the water. That makes the actual depth (for calculating scope) 70ft in this case.
160/70 = 2.3:1 scope.....

And she set right where I dropped her and she held full throttle in reverse!


I had a little more room to the wall and I put out 210ft and put on the bridle which attaches at the stem at the waterline negating the 8ft of rise of the bow.

New math: 62ft of depth (60 + 2 for depth sounder)
210/62 = 3.4:1 scope, which is what we went to bed with. Now I know that seems like very little scope, but I feel comfortable in certain circumstances going below 5:1. The deeper we are the better I feel about it because there is more total weight of chain for catenary. With 3/8 chain and my ridiculously large shackle that is over about 350lbs of weight in rode.


Now the fun bit.

I had worried that I was sleeping too deeply at anchor. Perhaps I was getting complacent. There was a rocky cliff only 100ft behind us.... I wondered if I could still wake up with that 6th sense when things "were't quite right." Yup, I can, and I did, because things weren't right.

At 5:30 am I woke up. I wasn't sure why I woke up but I had a nagging feeling something wasn't right. So I laid there and thought about it. The sound of the water woke me up, but it was the normal sound of lots of wavelets hitting the hull that you normally get with a strong wind.....

Oh wait, there is NO WIND. So why are the waves making that sound? I stood up in my bunk and looked out my window and there, was the cliff that was behind us, except we were facing it now, with the boat moving SIDEWAYS at 4-5 knots.

I started the engine, woke up my wife, and took to the cockpit in my underwear.

The tide was rushing in like in the Japanese Tsunami videos. There was actual white water and you could see that water higher as it filled in.

We did snatch up and the end of the anchor and then started doing FAST 360s around it. Another boat on mostly rope rode was also doing 360s and I was pretty sure he was dragging. I figured that the odds of a collision between us were high. I also didn't like what I was going on and I wanted out of there fast. Unfortunately fast isn't a speed on my manual windlass. Especially not when it's loaded. And loaded it was, with chain in deep water, and it was nearly impossible to motor to take any strain off, because we were doing figure eights.

I got in about 50ft of chain in 10 minutes (yeah I know ) and as suddenly as it started, the current madness was over. At this point, with the bridle not connected I was back to my 2.3:1 and still holding despite all the figure eights and 360s. I watched for a while and since my boat and the other boat's circles never overlapped we never hit. The anchor was clearly still holding us to the bottom. I watched for a half hour and went back to sleep.

What a crazy night! I did NOT like seeing cliff that was supposed to be 100ft behind us, be in front of us, with our boat doing 5 knots sideways!! I was REALLY glad that the anchor held through all that, in all directions and it came up easy in the morning.

After this, and my other recent anchoring adventures, I think I'm turning into a serious Mantus Fanboy.

MedSailor
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  #162  
Old 07-08-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Interesting..

You say it came it came up easily in the morning? It didn't bring up an acre of seabed?

/Joms

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Well it took me nearly a year to the day to fulfill my original promise above (of taking the anchor to Jones island) for a test. And test it we did!

Backstory:

The holding ground in the Salish Sea is pretty good ground to get an anchor to stick and hold in. I spend 4.5 months cruising years ago on my smaller boat using a Fortress FX-16 all over the Salish Sea. It served its purpose and never came unstuck despite some serious blows. It was not quick or easy to set though. I often had to try several times and once on the THIRD time I pulled it up it was fouled with chain. Set on the fourth try....

My next boat came with a manual windlass, negating the need for a lightweight anchor. It also came with my preferred anchor, the Genuine Bruce. Ahh... how wonderful to have it set in a boat-length or less (usually less) ever time. I became a Disciple of The Bruce.

The north end of Jones Island in the San Juan Islands is the only place where I had to pull it up and try again to get a set. A couple years ago there were a bunch or boats looking for shelter from a forecast south gale (which never came). I drug it a few hundred yards the first time, and probably 50 yards the second time before it set. Another boat (with a danforth copy) came and asked me what I was using and how I set it. It set, but not where I wanted it. I was too close to another boat and had to set my fortress as as stern anchor to limit swinging. If the winds came up the stern anchor (set to the north) wouldn't be a player, but I needed it to limit swinging. No gale, but during the night with just minimal tidal swinging the fortress came unset. Didn't hit the other boat though....

So that's the story of the tough holding ground at Jones. Now for the Mantus.




I headed there on the 2nd of July and there wasn't any serious wind forecast. The anchorage was crowded when I got there, necessitating anchoring on the northwest side of the cove. 60ft of water was as close in as I could get.

I was worried that it might not set immediately and we would be backing up towards the NW cliff. I decided not to lay out too much chain and back up slowly for the initial set. I put out 160ft of chain and we started backing.

For those watching closely, here are the hard numbers. My depth sounder is mounted 2 ft low and my bowsprit is 8ft above the water. That makes the actual depth (for calculating scope) 70ft in this case.
160/70 = 2.3:1 scope.....

And she set right where I dropped her and she held full throttle in reverse!


I had a little more room to the wall and I put out 210ft and put on the bridle which attaches at the stem at the waterline negating the 8ft of rise of the bow.

New math: 62ft of depth (60 + 2 for depth sounder)
210/62 = 3.4:1 scope, which is what we went to bed with. Now I know that seems like very little scope, but I feel comfortable in certain circumstances going below 5:1. The deeper we are the better I feel about it because there is more total weight of chain for catenary. With 3/8 chain and my ridiculously large shackle that is over about 350lbs of weight in rode.


Now the fun bit.

I had worried that I was sleeping too deeply at anchor. Perhaps I was getting complacent. There was a rocky cliff only 100ft behind us.... I wondered if I could still wake up with that 6th sense when things "were't quite right." Yup, I can, and I did, because things weren't right.

At 5:30 am I woke up. I wasn't sure why I woke up but I had a nagging feeling something wasn't right. So I laid there and thought about it. The sound of the water woke me up, but it was the normal sound of lots of wavelets hitting the hull that you normally get with a strong wind.....

Oh wait, there is NO WIND. So why are the waves making that sound? I stood up in my bunk and looked out my window and there, was the cliff that was behind us, except we were facing it now, with the boat moving SIDEWAYS at 4-5 knots.

I started the engine, woke up my wife, and took to the cockpit in my underwear.

The tide was rushing in like in the Japanese Tsunami videos. There was actual white water and you could see that water higher as it filled in.

We did snatch up and the end of the anchor and then started doing FAST 360s around it. Another boat on mostly rope rode was also doing 360s and I was pretty sure he was dragging. I figured that the odds of a collision between us were high. I also didn't like what I was going on and I wanted out of there fast. Unfortunately fast isn't a speed on my manual windlass. Especially not when it's loaded. And loaded it was, with chain in deep water, and it was nearly impossible to motor to take any strain off, because we were doing figure eights.

I got in about 50ft of chain in 10 minutes (yeah I know ) and as suddenly as it started, the current madness was over. At this point, with the bridle not connected I was back to my 2.3:1 and still holding despite all the figure eights and 360s. I watched for a while and since my boat and the other boat's circles never overlapped we never hit. The anchor was clearly still holding us to the bottom. I watched for a half hour and went back to sleep.

What a crazy night! I did NOT like seeing cliff that was supposed to be 100ft behind us, be in front of us, with our boat doing 5 knots sideways!! I was REALLY glad that the anchor held through all that, in all directions and it came up easy in the morning.

After this, and my other recent anchoring adventures, I think I'm turning into a serious Mantus Fanboy.

MedSailor
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  #163  
Old 07-08-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

So you obviously did not get hit by the 25-35 knot winds on the straights early last week! at least late in the day to evening hours! 6-8' swells crossing the straight in the am, with little to NO wind. Just remnants from the night before winds that I attempted to go out in from PT! Wife saw two really big waves crash over our wittle boat, gave me the turn around sign from below.......back to Port Hudson we went! That woulda been a wet trip across wed evening!

Anyway, got to try my 9 lb fast set as my motor died coming out of Ludlow, It set pretty well and quick too! Would be interesting to see how a mantus of this size would work on my boat too........maybe someday! These newer styles along with the bruce all work better here in the salish sea than a danforth style! I've lost too many trying to hold race mark bouy's! much less a boat!

Marty
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  #164  
Old 07-09-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
So you obviously did not get hit by the 25-35 knot winds on the straights early last week! at least late in the day to evening hours! 6-8' swells crossing the straight in the am, with little to NO wind. Just remnants from the night before winds that I attempted to go out in from PT! Wife saw two really big waves crash over our wittle boat, gave me the turn around sign from below.......back to Port Hudson we went! That woulda been a wet trip across wed evening!

Anyway, got to try my 9 lb fast set as my motor died coming out of Ludlow, It set pretty well and quick too! Would be interesting to see how a mantus of this size would work on my boat too........maybe someday! These newer styles along with the bruce all work better here in the salish sea than a danforth style! I've lost too many trying to hold race mark bouy's! much less a boat!

Marty
Get a 15 or 20 kg Rocna or Manson Supreme,. They hold just as well. Same design. Rocna is the same price and you don't have to pay shipping.

While all the testimonials are great, none prove their is any appreciable difference in holding power or resetting ability between these three new generation anchors.
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  #165  
Old 07-10-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Great story MedSailor, and Jones is a second home for us as well and I can testify to the currents and iffy holding. I can also testify to my growing confidence in our Mantus, as compared to our now defunct CQR. We are just back from a trip taking Aeolus up to Campbell River on our way around Van Isle and we had a rough night at Mitlenatch Island in the Northern Straits. It had been blowing NW all week anyway, and on this night it was blowing 20 with gusts to 25 and the low island provides shelter from waves but not from wind.

The anchorage in Camp Bay is tiny, with barely enough room to have 3:1 without a stern line. We set the Mantus and had about 25 feet off the stern to the steep rocky shore!! All night it howled, and I had set my anchor riding sail to smooth the bumps and our nylon anchor snubber to reduce shock loads. At 1am I woke as all captains do to some noise, and remained awake the rest of the morning from an overabundance of caution. I know for a fact that if we had been using our CQR that we would have been on the rocks before we knew it. We were too close to respond if the anchor had dragged. Yes, it is a very risky spot, but we've developed faith in the Mantus. Happy to say that darn thing did not so much as budge all night and morning.

I'm sure the Rocna and whoever else uses this sort of design would give the same sort of experience. I can't believe the difference, and I really have to learn to trust it even more so I can sleep better and not remain on anchor watch unnecessarily.
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  #166  
Old 07-12-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

OK Netters this is a three part series, so be patient..... this is just the Part I
We went to Mexico..
We took with us Mantus, Rocna, Danforth, Lewmar Claw, Manson Supreme, Manson Boss and Delta
In this Video all anchors are pulled with 4:1 scope and there is 10 feet of chain at the end on the rode... All anchor are pulled with a Panga with two 115 hp outboards gradually increasing the throttle from idle (700) to 1200 rpm.
The Bottom here is Soft Sand so we came with the expectation that all anchors will work well......

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  #167  
Old 07-13-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Well,

Have not looked to see if any updates are up. But a local that has a mantus, had a 40 boats drift into him recently, and the mantus held both. He seems a bit happier than his first adventure with it.

I'm beginning to think, some of th enewer design anchors are holding better than older versions personally!

marty
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  #168  
Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Netters HERE is
Part II Grass
Same Rules
Depth 25 feet
Scope 4:1
10 feet of chain and line for rode
Anchors Being pulled with a 33 foot Panga with two 115 hp outboards....

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  #169  
Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

In the last set of the Mantus, it looked almost exactly like the Supreme (i.e it started to dig in). With the Supreme, you then switched to a shot of it being towed along the surface - did the anchor break out again? What about the Mantus when you tried to pull it at the same speed?
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Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Holding here was horrible and you could easily pull out the 8lbs Mantus with two 115hp outboards (infect it only held to 900-1000 prm) what we try to show is the likely hood of a set....... Infect in this bottom once set they will be pretty similar in holding power....
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