Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market... - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 291 Old 03-18-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Med,
Any idea when Bruce stopped manufacturing small ? Interests sake only as we have one on our girl. Have to say I love the thing. Sets like a rock in fact. Overall I prefer it to the Rocna we had on the old girl. Only negative I find is that it sometimes likes to come up backwards and I have to give it a whack with boathook to spin it round.
It was factory fitted but to be honest I have no idea if it is the real deal or a copy. Must check that out next weekend. I admit I simply presumed genuine.
The real ones have "Bruce" cast into the shank.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #12 of 291 Old 03-18-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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The real ones have "Bruce" cast into the shank.

hmmm .... don't recall seeing any marks .... in fact I'm thinking that we probably have a Lewmar Claw as they seem to be unmarked. I'll compare the pics with our anchor on the weekend.

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post #13 of 291 Old 03-18-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Med,
Any idea when Bruce stopped manufacturing small ? Interests sake only as we have one on our girl. Have to say I love the thing. Sets like a rock in fact. Overall I prefer it to the Rocna we had on the old girl. Only negative I find is that it sometimes likes to come up backwards and I have to give it a whack with boathook to spin it round.
It was factory fitted but to be honest I have no idea if it is the real deal or a copy. Must check that out next weekend. I admit I simply presumed genuine.
What types of bottoms are you using it in?



Why are people happy to accept science which makes their life easier while rejecting science that makes their faith or beliefs more difficult?

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post #14 of 291 Old 03-18-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Med- you got a bargain, I paid $400 for our used 30kg (66lb). The reason I don't like the looks of the bolts on the roll bar are because if the bar caught on something solid it would put a side load on those two (why didn't they put two on each side?) bolts that hold it on. It wouldn't take much to snap them with the leverage of the roll bar.
TDW- It's been at least 5 years since Bruce discontinued making small anchors. They still make the huge ones for offshore drilling rigs as far as I know.
I've been using a Bruce for over 20 years here in the PNW on two different boats, never had one drag and have only had three occasions where it didn't set right away (once in heavy eel grass and two on solid smooth rock-never did get it to set those two times).

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post #15 of 291 Old 03-18-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
Med- you got a bargain, I paid $400 for our used 30kg (66lb). The reason I don't like the looks of the bolts on the roll bar are because if the bar caught on something solid it would put a side load on those two (why didn't they put two on each side?) bolts that hold it on. It wouldn't take much to snap them with the leverage of the roll bar.
TDW- It's been at least 5 years since Bruce discontinued making small anchors. They still make the huge ones for offshore drilling rigs as far as I know.
I've been using a Bruce for over 20 years here in the PNW on two different boats, never had one drag and have only had three occasions where it didn't set right away (once in heavy eel grass and two on solid smooth rock-never did get it to set those two times).
I suppose the bolts on the roll bar could be vulnerable (not really if properly engineered) but then again the roll bar isn't supposed to be a load bearing.

On closer inspection the shank does intersect the fluke closer to the tip, much like the "Sword" or the "Ocean" both made by spade anchors. I wonder if the "Sword" or "Ocean" is the cheap spade that paulo was referring to.

Yeah, that $150 66lb genuine Bruce is some of the best return on dollar investment I've ever spent. Lets see, moorage for my boat runs $75/night and I've already spent around 100nights laying to it in the last 4 years.... Yeah, I'd say that's good value. I kept the 44# genuine Bruce that came with the boat too now that they're scarce, just in case I loose the big one. Although, if I lost the big B I'd probably pony up and try out a Spade. I hear good things.

It seems like it's been a couple years since a big anchor test has been done. Aren't we due for another one to stir the pot?

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post #16 of 291 Old 03-18-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
P.S. is the real Bruce noticeably better than the Lewmar copy? Details please.
Link to the 2006 Sail Magazine test of anchors. The claw didn't do well at all, they suspected that it might be because of the different geometry of the Claw as compated to the Bruce. Then again, the real Bruce didn't do well in a very well designed test from 1995. Maybe the Bruce really does suck and we believers are just in denial. Mine has held in 30kts sustained with gusts in the 40s several times.....

2006 Sail Test: http://www.alberg37.org/Project%20DB...AnchorTest.pdf

From the article:
The Claw is Lewmar’s version of the Bruce to the ocean floor. Bruce no longer make yacht Claw doesn’t share the original geometry anchor which has been around since 1972. anchors, hence our testing this version. The of the Bruce design? Were the Claw’s fl ukes Used by cruisers the world over, it was Claw is made from a single piece of high-grade simply not sharp enough to penetrate the developed to secure oil rigs steel and stows well on the bow-roller. harder clay-like sand? We recorded similar We were surprised that it was one of the results at 7:1 scope. The beach-pull trials worst performers in our tests. The maximum showed the Claw ploughing a longer trench resistance at 5:1 scope was 886 lb – for a brief down the beach than most. spike before breaking out. The tension graphs Our conclusions were that the fl ukes of showed that the anchor never penetrated the Claw weren’t sharp or weighted enough properly, setting and releasing rapidly or simply to penetrate.scraping the bottom. Was this because the Price: £58.35

1995 US Sailing test: http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anchor/anchor_study.htm

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Last edited by MedSailor; 03-18-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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post #17 of 291 Old 03-19-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

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Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
What types of bottoms are you using it in?

Varies a bit but sand (both loose and firm) and mud mainly. Our old CQR would start to let loose at around 35 knots in mud and worse case anchored in over 40 knots we moved half a boats length before holding firm, that in thick mud. Rocna was marginally better. In loose sand the CQR was utterly hopeless the Rocna fine. Our "Bruce" has performed faultlessly in all conditions though this is the new boat so not a direct comparison I guess.


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snippy

TDW- It's been at least 5 years since Bruce discontinued making small anchors. They still make the huge ones for offshore drilling rigs as far as I know.
I've been using a Bruce for over 20 years here in the PNW on two different boats, never had one drag and have only had three occasions where it didn't set right away (once in heavy eel grass and two on solid smooth rock-never did get it to set those two times).
John .... Have done some reading and while our anchor is eight years old so could have feasibly come from the Bruce factory its stainless and I believe they were never made by Bruce in stainless. Be interesting to see what the end result re "who made it" actually is. Not likely to change my opinion though, I still love the thing.


ah yes ... a ps .... Malo use a lot of Lewmar gear on their boats, so maybe thats a clue to origin of anchor.

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post #18 of 291 Old 03-19-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Test any anchor on dry land before trusting it on your boat. Danforths we made with too wide an angle, flipped on their side and dragged easily, until we reduced the angle. Then it dove in securely. Less than 32 degrees still works , one degree over 32 degrees reduces holding power by 50%. Any more, and it will flip on it's side and drag forever without biting in.
Looks like the anchor shown has the same problem as a Bruce and many others. Get a rock the right size in and it will drag forever. A plow or Delta will let the rock slide out to one side.
I hope to try a roll bar instead of ballast on the next delta I build.
I also hope to make it collapsible. A huge , grossly oversized, collapsible anchor in the bilge can be great insurance in a hurricane. With an alternator , I can easily weld it together when I need it , instead of bolting it.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

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post #19 of 291 Old 03-19-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

OK, here's a question. I picked up a 33# Manta claw for $13 when the local West Marine shut down (yes $13 that's not a typo).

Looking at the Manta chart I figured it would be a good upgrade from the 22#Danforth on the bow now. My boat is a 30' Catalina, 10,300lbs unloaded and the 22# Danforth is supposed to be rated for boats up to 38'.

Manta Size Chart
16.5lb Claw Anchor for Boats 24'-30'
22lb. Claw Anchor for Boats 31'-35'
33lb. Claw Anchor for Boats 36'-40'

Reading this thread got me curious. The size charts for the Lewmar are the same as the Manta, but the charts for the Manson Ray are quite different though it looks like the same design. Is this just a case of Manson being more conservative or is there some real difference?

Manson Size Chart
22lb. Ray Anchor, 18' to 25' Boat Length
33lb. Ray Anchor, 25' to 30' Boat Length
44lb. Ray Anchor, 30' to 40' Boat Length



BTW, no windlass so whatever I put on the bow comes up by hand.

I figure either the Danforth or Manta should be enough anchor for my boat, but from reading I understand the Bruce style anchors are quicker to reset.

Thoughts?

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post #20 of 291 Old 03-19-2012
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Re: Another "Next Generation" anchor enters the market...

Anyone notice that the bolts are not only on the hoop, but also holding the shank to the fluke?

Those are the bolts that would concern me.



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